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Calling USHPA's Bluff
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Jim



Joined: 09 Apr 2010
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

"Effectively" and "paraphrase" are not the same as 'literal' and do not warrant quotes. No one said those words. They are BK's interpretation.

Just as I choose to interpret BK's words as hyperbole: Salem witch trials, comparison to Rosa Parks, accusing pilots of driving another to suicide...

The bottom line is that BK hurt people, basically, all members of the USHPA, by pursuing his vengeful agenda against a business operator and the leadership of the organization who didn't see things the way he did. I think the leadership and the vendor made mistakes, too. But waging a verbal pogrom against them because one didn't get the result they expected - time for some hyperbole - read :ISIS.

USHPA is a club that offers services to its members. It is not the government. It has the right to not offer services to a member that causes damage to the whole. It sets conditions for acceptance. One chooses to meet them or not. And like it or not, it is at the discretion of those the members choose to represent them.

I am not aware of any cry of despair from the membership at BK's expulsion. If I am wrong, please, PLEASE! attend the meeting in Cupertino, CA or talk to your local director and make them aware of your feelings.

Get the ball rolling on reinstatement for BK, if you believe it's warranted.

And watch here for his next 'moon shot' response.
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NME



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bob Kuczewski wrote:
Jonathan, it's a little frightening imagining you scouring the internet to find a song to post that expresses your obsession for me. Please stop....
Aw shucks Bob. I appreciate the compliment but truthfully it took all of 30 seconds to input the phrases "screw loose" and "cry baby" into the Google search engine and get hits on that video. I hope you enjoyed the performance.
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Bob Kuczewski



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Jim wrote:
"Effectively" and "paraphrase" are not the same as 'literal' and do not warrant quotes. No one said those words. They are BK's interpretation.


Of course they're not "literal". That's why I said I was paraphrasing. I also urged you and everyone else to read the actual expulsion charges that USHPA emailed to all members. If you want to challenge my paraphrasing as inaccurate, then show your reasoning based on USHPA's actual letter. Thanks in advance.

Jim wrote:
Just as I choose to interpret BK's words as hyperbole: Salem witch trials, comparison to Rosa Parks, accusing pilots of driving another to suicide...


Again, if you don't think they're accuate, then make the case as to why. All analogies are flawed in some ways, but we use them to convey a lot of information in shorthand form. I'm not black and I'm not female. But I was arrested for willfully disobeying orders of the "authorities". My arrest led to a change in policy where the police no longer arrest whoever the concessionaire wants without cause. If you don't think the Rosa Parks example is an appropriate shorthand for that situation, then again, make your case. Regarding the suicide, I still have the email message where she explicitly mentioned bullying by David and Gabe Jebb. She also said she was devastated by the way she was treated by other pilots. Do you have contrary evidence or are you just parroting rumors you've heard from others?

Jim wrote:
The bottom line is that BK hurt people, basically, all members of the USHPA, by pursuing his vengeful agenda against a business operator and the leadership of the organization who didn't see things the way he did. I think the leadership and the vendor made mistakes, too. But waging a verbal pogrom against them because one didn't get the result they expected - time for some hyperbole - read :ISIS.


Now you're showing ignorance of the facts. As a Regional Director, I brought a case to USHPA's leadership very similar to Shannon Hamby's incident a year before she was injured. USHPA did nothing. It was their job to protect both their insurance program and their pilot members like Shannon Hamby. They failed to do both resulting in injury to Shannon Hamby and their insurance program. What kind of sick, anti-American human being would deny Shannon a fair trial in that case? Look to USHPA's leadership for that one.

Jim wrote:
USHPA is a club that offers services to its members. It is not the government. It has the right to not offer services to a member that causes damage to the whole. It sets conditions for acceptance. One chooses to meet them or not. And like it or not, it is at the discretion of those the members choose to represent them.


I think you just described the KKK. Our country grants wide latitude to private organizations. But if Joe Greblo were requiring KKK membership to fly at Dockweiler beach, the County response would be to fix it. That's what they've done in their recent action freeing us from USHPA, and they were right to do so. USHPA can't have it both ways. They can't claim to be the fair, impartial overseer of free flight on one hand, but play the "we can kick out anyone we want" card with the other hand. It's one or the other, and they've chosen the low road. Los Angeles County was the first to recognize this, but they won't be the last.

And that brings me to an important pragmatic point about USHPA's "leadership" in this matter. Aside from the "who hates who" nonesense, what was the practical effect of USHPA's expulsion?

Has it kept me from speaking to the San Diego City Council? Nope. I've had far better attendance than prior to my expulsion. And I've never had cause to address the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors until USHPA tightened the screws on Joe Greblo to keep me out of Dockweiler. So how has that worked out as a pragmatic decision?

Has it protected USHPA in any future lawsuits? How do you think it will sound to a judge or jury to hear that USHPA has expelled members for testifying in court? Do you think that will somehow help USHPA ... or make them look more like an organized crime outfit?

Has it helped USHPA raise money? Nope. I personally know of at least one fairly wealthy member who withheld a sizeable donation based on USHPA's actions in my case.

Has it helped USHPA gain members? Nope. Again, I personally know at least one long-time USHPA member who refused to renew based on this expulsion. I know of many others who no longer trust USHPA as their only means to fly. USHPA threw away a ton of good will by members with their stupid retaliation.

Has it helped USHPA retain sites? This is a very clear no. Just read USHPA's expulsion letter again and ask how any landowner - especially a government land owner - will feel about an organization that retaliates against citizens who exercise their freedom of speech or testify truthfully in court. The Dockweiler decision gives you the answer. USHPA threw away decades of being repected as a fair overseer of hang gliding.

And what was gained by my expulsion? I can still do everything I did before my expulsion ... except fly. Has my flying ever presented a problem anywhere?

The bottom line is that all USHPA members should be furious with USHPA for making such a stupid decision that created a whole range of problems ... just so they could retaliate against Bob Kuczewski and keep him from flying. Whether you like me or not, that was a stupid strategic blunder by USHPA's leadership, and you should fire them all. But you won't and this slow motion train wreck will continue.

Back on topic, if Ken Andrews were a true leader he'd be saying these things. He'd have recognized the blunder and its consequences. He'd be fixing these things to protect USHPA's unique place in hang gliding. Unfortunately, he is not, and USHPA's reputation is on a long sledder toward a bad landing.

And don't forget the class clowns who've thrown their own drogue chutes into this mess on the way down. Let history record the words of Jonathan Dietch as a contributing part of this train wreck. Also, regarding your earlier post, I said it was frightening. That was not a compliment.
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NME



Joined: 25 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bob Kuczewski wrote:
....And don't forget the class clowns who've thrown their own drogue chutes into this mess on the way down. Let history record the words of Jonathan Dietch as a contributing part of this train wreck. Also, regarding your earlier post, I said it was frightening. That was not a compliment.
Golly Bob. Well thanks kindly for the positive plug on drogue chutes. I'd be happy to help you learn to use yours some time if you like. Elsinore is a very good site where anyone can fly and a good drogue can make landings a breeze-ola. You too can learn to land like this.....


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Bob Kuczewski



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

NME wrote:
Well thanks kindly for the positive plug on drogue chutes. I'd be happy to help you learn to use yours some time if you like.


No thanks. Didn't at least one of your recent hospitalizations result from your incompetent use of a drogue chute?

But either way, please start that discussion in another thread. People visiting this one have every right to expect a discussion about USHPA. Let's not disappoint them. Thanks.
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NME



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bob Kuczewski wrote:
.....Didn't at least one of your recent hospitalizations result from your incompetent use of a drogue chute?
Well Bob, You have me there. In matters of what is and what isn't incompetent I can't even begin to hold a candle to your tenure as Region 3 Director or your performance as expert witness for Shannon Hamby where in both cases you were rightfully impeached.

Quote:
...But either way, please start that discussion in another thread. People visiting this one have every right to expect a discussion about USHPA. Let's not disappoint them. Thanks.
I didn't broach the subject of drogue chutes Bob. You did. Here's another video that hopefully helps convince you to buy a drogue for flying at Elsinore. One day you will thank me for this.


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Jim



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Whatever ways BK spins things (read his moon shot response - told you so - carefully: I call him on hyperbole, he spins it as an accusation of inaccuracy; he's a master dissembler).

It appears that he would rather continue to believe that he's right about everything he perceives, than fly. Again, BK supporters, please make your wishes known, en masse, to USHPA. Help BK since he can't help himself.
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Bob Kuczewski



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Jonathan, I can't tell if you're misinformed or outright lying here:

NME wrote:
Well Bob, You have me there. In matters of what is and what isn't incompetent I can't even begin to hold a candle to your tenure as Region 3 Director or your performance as expert witness for Shannon Hamby where in both cases you were rightfully impeached.


You know very well that losing an election is not being "impeached". It's just losing an election. In fact, the USHPA insiders were so afraid that I might turn around and win the very next election that they passed a special rule to bar me from running again for years.

You also know very well that my testimony in the Hamby case was so solid that USHPA's insurer didn't even argue the case. They settled the case in Shannon's favor (as they should have), and then they walked away from USHPA's incompetence (as they should have).

You may fool the foolish with statements like yours, but you won't fool anyone else.

Jim, your response is so vacuous that I don't see anything to respond to. I'll just refer you to the post before my last and ask you to try again to address any of the actual arguments presented. Thanks.

For anyone else still reading this topic, thanks for putting up with the continual diversions. Diversion is the best argument the USHPA loyalists can muster, and it explains why USHPA has lost its insurance. Diversions don't reassure the people investing their money.
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Bob Kuczewski



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject: Letter to Region 3 Directors Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Back on topic ...

Two of the three current Region 3 Directors (Ken Andrews and Dan DeWeese) were not on the USHPA Board during my expulsion proceeding, and the third (Alan Crouse) had abstained from the vote. I believe they could (and should) stand together to reverse USHPA's ill-advised expulsion, but I seriously doubt they will.

In that kind of situation, it's often best to simply make the request and let the chips fall on those making the decisions. Earlier this morning, I sent the following message to all three Region 3 Directors:

Quote:
To: region3director1@ushpa.org, region3director2@ushpa.org, region3director3@ushpa.org

Region 3 Directors Andrews, Crouse, and DeWeese,

I am writing to request a reversal of USHPA's 2015 Expulsion action against me (see attached) or to confirm that it is an ongoing action of USHPA under your Directorship.

I am also writing to request a reversal of USHPA's 2016 refusal to renew the Torrey Hawks Chapter status or again to confirm that the refusal is an ongoing action of USHPA under your Directorship.

Please be advised that I will be using your response - or lack of response - to establish USHPA's ongoing retaliation against both individuals and clubs at flying sites in the United States. It is my desire that USHPA reverse both of these actions, and I request that all three Region 3 Directors (Ken, Alan, and Dan) bring the matter to the upcoming USHPA Board meeting and that you unanimously and officially request the reversal of both of these actions in your capacity as Region 3 Directors.

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
Club Secretary - Torrey Hawks Hang Gliding Club
Board Member - US Hawks Hang Gliding Association
Former USHPA Member ######

cc/bcc: Observers


I hope that Ken, Alan, and Dan will recognize that USHPA has made a mistake by allowing non-flying actions to be used to restrict a pilot's ability to fly. That's a line that should not have been crossed, and I'd like to think (though I'm not very hopeful) that even my most strident critics (like Jonathan and Jim) will recognize that as a mistake.

Time will tell ...
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Ken Andrews
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject: BK, redux Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In the possibility that there might be a new reader here who hasn’t made up his mind long ago, maybe it’s time to tell another side of this saga.

As we all know, USHPA made its decision to expel Bob in March of 2015. That fall, when Bob saw my name on the USHPA ballot, he pleaded his case to me, and asked that I fight for justice, or at least his version of it. A lone voice on a 25-member board obviously wouldn’t reverse such a decision, so instead, as a friend and fellow human being, I made a personal offer to Bob to help find a compromise that might allow him to regain his membership.

Such a compromise wouldn’t be easy, and would require large concessions from both parties. On Bob’s side, I asked if he would step back from his confrontational approach, with Torrey Pines, with the City of San Diego, with USHPA. In response, Bob loosed an avalanche of email and forum posts about how I was trying to tread on his rights. He also asked me "to write up - EXACTLY - and in the form of a contract” the terms and conditions of the favor I was offering. This wasn’t a promising start to finding a compromise, or for letting go of his confrontational methods.

At my first board meeting, in the Spring of 2016, I did not call upon the board to reverse its decision; that would have led to instant and certain refusal. Instead, I talked to as many board members as I could, quietly, in small groups of two and three, to gather sentiment and information. Every single time, the responses were vehement and negative. Words like “poison” and “evil incarnate” were repeated disturbingly often. Evidently, Bob had burned more bridges with each of the board members than I had imagined possible. Time may heal this, albeit slowly. There is turn-over among the board members, and old hostilities will fade if not renewed.

My offer to try to facilitate a compromise wasn’t a bluff, and it wasn’t on behalf of USHPA; it was a personal offer to help a friend. Moreover, the offer remains good, even though the offer doesn’t come with a written contract, and Bob doesn't make friendship easy. Truly, I would like to find a way for Bob to be welcomed as a USHPA member again. But a compromise is just that; if Bob will not yield, then I’m sure that USHPA will not either. If and when Bob has a change of heart, I’m here to help.
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Bob Kuczewski



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply to Ken Andrews Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ken,

USHPA's letter was clear in spelling out the reasons for my expulsion. They included:

- Starting a new hang gliding association.
- Testifying in a court of law (where USHPA disagreed).
- Exercising my First Amendment Rights to the San Diego City Council.

First Amendment, US Constitution wrote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


If you take away all of USHPA's expulsion charges that were based on those 3 items, all you'll have left are some pitiful hearsay lies that didn't stand up in court.

You speak of "compromise" in very general terms, and it all sounds so nice. But let me quote Doug from earlier in this topic:

dhmartens May 02, 2016 wrote:
What exactly is he supposed to change?
his tone? his religion?


You know very well that I asked you to spell out the conditions of your "compromise" because I knew that neither you nor USHPA would be willing to make these statements clear:

- Bob can be a USHPA member if he won't testify in court.
- Bob can be a USHPA member if he won't speak to his City Council.
- Bob can be a USHPA member if he doesn't criticize USHPA.
- Bob can be a USHPA member if he resigns from the US Hawks.

You won't make those conditions clear, yet those are exactly the conditions that you (or USHPA) want me to abide by. I will not.

My letter to you was clear. I will not beg, and I will not compromise my Constitutional rights in order to be a member of USHPA. I sought either a reversal of the expulsion/rejection or a confirmation that the expulsion/rejection was still being enforced under your Directorship. Your replies (here and by email) confirm the latter. That's all I needed (thank you), and the rest of this post is mostly an academic exercise in responding to your own comments.


Regarding the rest of your post (and your email letter attached below)...

First of all, your "reading of the tea leaves of the other Directors" is based on purported "facts" that have either changed or been proven to be false.

For example, at the time of my expulsion, potential trespassing charges were still pending. They have all been dropped since then. The City of San Diego had a year to bring actual charges (up to August of 2016), and they didn't, so any of your discussions with the Board in 2015 and the first half of 2016 (within the City's one year limit) are moot. The facts were not yet settled at that time. But the facts are settled now. No charges were ever filed against me, and I've been able to go to the Torrey Pines Gliderport freely since August of 2015 (there are plenty of pictures and witnesses to prove it). I just can't fly there because of USHPA's expulsion.

Back to your letter(s), I have to say that I am somewhat appalled that your approach as a Regional Director is to cower behind "group think" for your opinions and your actions. You weren't elected to be a carbon copy of the other Board Members. You were elected because you are a unique individual with intelligence and hopefully some degree of courage in the board room. Yet you've been cowed into thinking that you can't speak out because it might offend some other Director(s), and/or they won't agree with you? Are you afraid they'll retaliate and not honor your next request to give Jonathan Dietch some meaningless ego-stroking award because you spoke your mind about Bob Kuczewski's unjust expulsion? Is that what USHPA's Board has become?

That's not leadership. Leadership isn't taking people where they'd go on their own anyway. Leadership is having the courage to bring people to where they should go - even when they don't know it (or want it) themselves.

Case in point: I was on that same Board for a few months less time than you have been, and I - as unpopular as I was - got the Board to pass the resolution that I wanted (increasing the number of HG/PG representatives on the Torrey Pines Soaring Council). I didn't get that passed by sitting in the corner trying not to offend anyone. I got that passed because it was the right thing to do and because I argued the case strongly and publicly - both on-line and before the Board. That's what Directors should do. The current "go along to get along" USHPA board culture is a big part of what's killing USHPA (it's also what's killing this country, but that's another story).

Ken, I have not been able to fly at Torrey Pines since November of 2014. That will be three years very soon. I am over 60 years old, and if you've looked around at Sylmar, you know that the years don't get better. There are a number of rotten people in USHPA who will have this injustice forever attached to their names. You are rising in those ranks. An injustice is an injustice, and I am appalled that you would advise me (in your email letter) to "wait it out" as if somehow time will make it better. It's just the opposite. Every passing day that I cannot fly at Torrey or Sylmar or Crestline or Funston or Point of the Mountain only compounds the injustice. Those are days and flights that I will never get back. You're smart enough (and old enough) to know that.

You said (in your email letter) that you couldn't support my request for reversal because that may not be "in the best interests of USHPA or of its members". Have you asked the members? Have you asked them if they think it's worth it for USHPA to lose credibility in Los Angeles County (just the beginning) in order to punish Bob Kuczewski? Have you asked the members if it's worth all the money you've wasted on lawyers just to keep Bob Kuczewski from flying? Have you even asked the members if they think that Bob Kuczewski should be kept from flying at all?

Wait, I know the party line ... "We can't allow Bob Kuczewski to say he's a member of USHPA". But you know that Frank Colver debunked that long ago when he wrote to USHPA suggesting an insurance-only membership option. USHPA turned that down because it wasn't about membership at all. It was about retaliation. Come to think of it, Frank was also planning a large donation to USHPA's RRG fund, but he could not do so with a clear conscience while USHPA was still retaliating against me. USHPA never got that donation. I also know of other members who've refused to renew their membership based on this ongoing injustice. Such a mess of ill will for pure retaliation.

So Ken, when you speak about the "best interests of USHPA or of its members", have you asked the members (aside from a few of the clowns) how much of their money they want to spend each year (in legal fees, lost donations, and lost memberships) just to be sure that Bob Kuczewski can't fly at Sylmar and Torrey and Crestline? How much of their money do you think USHPA has spent so far?

Now let me get to your email message from earlier today:

Ken Andrews wrote:
Bob,

In my role as regional director, I cannot currently support your request for reversal of the two actions, because it is not clear to me that they are in the best interests of USHPA or of its members. However, if you wish me to do so, I will look into the procedures for impartially raising the motions at the spring board meeting, and getting responses from the board.

As a friend, I beg of you not to pursue this now. I think the outcome is obvious, and it will only hurt your position further. Currently, time is in your favor. After this year’s election, there will be at least a couple new members on the board, and the hostilities of the past will be remembered less vividly. As I’ve said before, I think that compromise and reconciliation are the best path forward, though they will take time, since there is a lot of healing that must happen. While I can’t expect you to give my own advice much weight, perhaps you would be willing to listen to the advice of Joe Greblo and others who have successfully navigated the waters of hang gliding politics through the years.

-Ken


Ken, the outcome may be obvious to you, but that's not what matters. What matters is making the outcome obvious to everyone else. Make the motion in October, and request a roll call vote. Make the case that USHPA's retaliation is hurting USHPA's image and risking the loss of more flying sites. Bring up Dockweiler and the County of Los Angeles. Bring up all the dropped charges. Make the case that USHPA should not be retaliating for any kind of testimony ... anywhere. Make the case that our ability to fly should ONLY be based on our flying and not on our testimony (or tone or religion - thanks again Doug). Then call the roll and have them put their names to it. That's how I passed the Balanced Soaring Council motion in 2010. If someone as hated as I supposedly am can do it, then it should be a breeze for a nice likable fellow like you Ken.

Since you've mentioned Joe Greblo, I'll address your comments (please don't take too much offense Joe). Joe Greblo never thought I'd pass the Balanced Soaring Council motion in 2010, but I did. I would have had it carried out if it weren't for the recall election. No one's going to recall you Ken. Joe Greblo also thought Los Angeles County would NEVER approve hang gliding at Dockweiler without USHPA (I wasn't too sure myself). But we got that passed as well (Thanks again to Los Angeles County). Finally, there was a time when it was common knowledge that "if man were meant to fly, he'd have wings". What happened to that one? In all cases, it took people daring enough to try - to make all of those things happen. What makes you think the USHPA Board situation is any different? Leadership sometimes means drawing a hard line and standing behind it. You do that not because it's popular or because Joe Greblo says it will work. You do it because it's the right thing to do. That's on you, not Joe Greblo.

Most importantly, if I were your Director Ken, you know very well that I would not rest until you got justice. That's what I did for David Beardslee, and he's flying at Torrey to this very day - to this day. I would use social media. I would introduce motions that made your case so they'd end up in the USHPA Board's minutes. I would do everything I could to be sure that you were treated fairly. It wouldn't matter to me what any of the other Directors thought, and I would have done that for anyone in my Region - friend or foe. The Torrey folks were terrified that I would retaliate against them when I became Director. They were terrified because they expected me to do what they would do. I did not. I never revoked a single rating, and I even renewed their ratings when asked. I did everything by the book, and I was fair to all - even in reporting what would foreshadow the Hamby case. You know that I would not have stood to have anyone kicked out of USHPA just because USHPA's lawyer couldn't win a case where they testified. Am I wrong for expecting that of you, Ken?

Your second paragraph started off "As a friend", but I cannot understand a friendship where a "friend" would sit by and allow an injustice to continue for 2 or 3 years to another "friend". I guess I'm a different kind of friend than you are Ken.

This is a long message, and I'm sure the "ADD" crowd will have great fun mocking it. But let me conclude it with the operative part. I've asked you to bring the matter of my expulsion and the Torrey Hawks refused renewal before the Board this October. I've asked you to make the case, and make a motion, and request a roll call vote. Whatever you do will reflect on you. Whatever the Board does will reflect on them. That's as it should be. All I can do is be sure that everyone knows about it.

Thanks for your time, and I hope you enjoyed Larry's Birthday party today.

Happy 75th Larry!!
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Ken Andrews
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: BK, again Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bob,

To summarize, perhaps this whole discussion depends on whether your priority is to fly, or that elusive thing called justice. If it were to fly, then maybe I could help. But it’s evident that the fight for justice is even more important to you, and so I’ll have leave that to you, Doug Martens, Joe Faust, and Frank Colver.

I suppose that shows I’m more pragmatist and less idealist than you are; so be it. Now I’ll try to leave this discussion to Doug, whose posts are no less productive, and certainly less repetitive.
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Bob Kuczewski



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: BK, again Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ken,

You've presented what's known as a "false dichotomy" (see Wikipedia). Hang gliding pilots should not have to prioritize whether they want to fly or whether they want justice. They should be able to have both. To the degree that your quote is an admission that USHPA forces pilots to choose between flying and justice, I again have to thank you for additional ammunition to free sites from USHPA's grip. Thanks!

I've sent you a formal email response to your own earlier email message and it's also posted on the US Hawks Forum. I think it's a better written version of what I've posted above. It includes some tangible reasons why USHPA's expulsion of myself and the Torrey Hawks is not in USHPA's best interests. To the degree you find that to be true, you are in violation of the role you've cited as a Regional Director.

I think I've been pretty clear about the costs to USHPA of my expulsion and of USHPA's failure to renew the Torrey Hawks (legal costs, loss of credibility at Dockweiler, loss of credibility at future TBD sites, loss of credibility in future lawsuits, loss of Frank's offer of a sizeable donation, loss of several pilot memberships not renewed, loss of good will by many pilots). What can you cite as the benefits to USHPA members of those actions?

Go ahead, be pragmatic if you like.

Thanks in advance,
Bob
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dhmartens



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 819
Location: Reseda

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ushpa its been a decade so please restore BobK membership.
We all know Ushpa gambled with safety and lost at Torrey and things are different today with Pasa/RRRG/Ushpa and Torrey is not provided insurance, and our dues have doubled.


Link



Link

These mist covered mountains
Are a home now for me
But my home is the lowlands
And always will be
Some day you'll return to
Your valleys and your farms
And you'll no longer burn
To be brothers in arms

Through these fields of destruction
Baptisms of fire
I've witnessed you suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms
There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones

Now the sun's gone to hell
And the moon's riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But it's written in the starlight
And every line on your palm
We're fools to make war
On our brothers in arms
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NME



Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 1636

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Good find here Doug. Bob's mind gets read verbatim in that Star Trek episode beginning right here: https://youtu.be/zo1zbUwSNWg?t=2m7s
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Bob Kuczewski



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 508
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

dhmartens wrote:
Ushpa its been a decade so please restore BobK membership. We all know Ushpa gambled with safety and lost at Torrey and things are different today with Pasa/RRRG/Ushpa and Torrey is not provided insurance, and our dues have doubled.

USHPA is ruled by money and revenge. Rather than seeing the Torrey lawsuit/loss as a wake up call to turn back, they saw it as time to double down. You used the right words when you said "USHPA gambled".

The USHPA Insiders host a poker game at every Director's meeting. While I was in my hotel room reading all the garbage they were going to pass the next day, the USHPA Insiders were honing their poker faces and their bluffing strategies. They've been gambling with the member's money all along.

Just as you said, Doug, they gambled at Torrey and lost ... badly. They lost all the money and the long insurance track record that the members had saved and entrusted to them for decades. And rather than stand up like men and apologize for their misdeeds, they doubled down again and tried to find a scapegoat.

It's all catching up with them now. My expulsion notice reads like USHPA's own confession to witness intimidation and retaliation. No conscientious government agency or land owner will require membership in that sewer of an organization for pilots to use their land after reading what USHPA considers grounds for expulsion.

But the USHPA Insiders will double down again because they're gamblers and they're playing with other people's money - your money.


dhmartens wrote:
Some day you'll return to 
Your valleys and your farms 
 :
You did not desert me 
My brothers in arms 

Thanks Doug, and thanks to all who have stood for justice these past 10 years. There are many costs to flying with eagles ... but justice should never be one of them.
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Last edited by Bob Kuczewski on Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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dhmartens



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 819
Location: Reseda

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

When some of the pilots reached 12,000 feet they may have become confused(hypoxia) as to who played Gorgan the friendly angel in the star trek clip.
He was not played by Alan Hale Jr the who played the Skipper and owned the Lobster Barrel restaurant.
826 North La Cienega Boulevard.

Which would be visible from 12,000 feet.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/826+N+La+Cienega+Blvd,+Los+Angeles,+CA+90069/@34.1563952,-118.6915967,10.67z/data=

The freindly angel was played non-actor Melvin Belli, who was also the attorney for Jack Ruby, who shot Lee Harvey Oswald for the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melvin_Belli

Brought to you by:

Link

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dhmartens



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 819
Location: Reseda

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I hope this posting helps change the wind direction.

Product warning!! Bud Select 55 can be dangerous to individuals who are allergic to water, as the beer is mostly water.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160915-the-woman-who-is-allergic-to-water

Strange I mentioned JFK earlier lets look at the hang gliding connection as within hours his files will finally be released. What exactly did JFK know about hang gliders? Were they discovered at Roswell NM?





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Bob Kuczewski



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 508
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am    Post subject: Re: Reply to Ken Andrews Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

On September 23, 2017, Bob Kuczewski wrote:
Ken,
...
I've asked you to bring the matter of my expulsion and the Torrey Hawks refused renewal before the Board this October. I've asked you to make the case, and make a motion, and request a roll call vote. Whatever you do will reflect on you. Whatever the Board does will reflect on them. That's as it should be. All I can do is be sure that everyone knows about it.

Ken Andrews, for the record, can your report the actions you took at the October 2017 USHPA Board meeting in response to my requests above?
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