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Petition to Leave BoB K alone and let him serve out his term
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Should BoB K serve out his term????
Yes---should serve out his term
65%
 65%  [ 17 ]
Yes--- Should serve out his term (with conditions)
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
No---should leave on his own
19%
 19%  [ 5 ]
No---we should hold special election and vote him out
11%
 11%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 26

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OSCAR



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 489
Location: LONG BEACH,CA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:02 am    Post subject: Petition to Leave BoB K alone and let him serve out his term Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Leave BoB alone ,He's not hurting anybody ,I say let him serve out the term he was voted in for.He's got some good ideas and good intentions He's just look in out for us HG pilots .Let him leave with some dignity,....for christ's sakes.
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barton



Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 155
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

edited 6.20.2018

Last edited by barton on Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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JBBenson



Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bob may be a bit overzealous, and his time and energy may be better used establishing new sites, but he has legitimate concerns, and is doing what he was voted into office to do, so no one should be surprised.

You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
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dhmartens



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 848
Location: Reseda

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think of this as a Chicken Burrito. The finished product is delicious but you're not going to like watching how it is made by taking a cleaver to a live chicken and the cleaning, plucking, skinning, etc.
I once calculated to satisfy McDonalds beef demand, a conveyor belt of head to toe cows would have to travel 60 MPH into a grinder.

Bob is making a big mess here, but big messes get cleaned up.

In hang gliding they teach you to keep your eyes on your numbers - your goal.

We had a positive discussion in the LZ today as the rains came in with comp pilots that have flown Torrey and others that have flown there. Some thought a Hang 2 could fly there under supervision, also a Hang 3 could get a sign off for a new type of special skill that represents the hazards they would have to deal with at Torrey.

I had talked to JT yesterday on how Brad Hall changes one variable at a time and waits to see the result. Scientists use this method, but it takes longer than changing everything you can at once.

Back to my chicken burrito.
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jcflies



Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 643

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i hate politics, period. nothing is ever as it appears and telling lies is de rigueur. (who do you really suppose killed Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. anyway?)

i like bob, a lot. i admire anyone with tenacity. it's so easy to just say "Eff it," as so many of us do. his posts bore me, but i like him! (please include more bitchin' vids of people doing cool shit, dude!)

i also like barton and the way he represents the shga barrio with style. furthermore, i know he wouldn't be taking a stance like this if it weren't extremely important to him.

but my vote's with oscar. can't we leave bob alone and focus on having fun and flying?

let him serve his term.
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janyce

"You HAVE to make it..."
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Bob Kuczewski



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 575
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thanks for all the support.

Oscar, you're a good man, and I hope the Hawks will be a good strong hang gliding club to support your flying for a long time. Smile

JBBenson, thanks to you as well. I think you've summed it up very well. "You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs." Smile

dhmartens, I also appreciate your comments. Your Chicken Burrito analogy sums it up just like the "omelette" analogy (we seem to be on a chicken and egg theme here?). Smile

Janyce, I appreciate your comments on tenacity most of all. It's been a long and painful struggle. Sometimes I wonder if anyone even cares. Then I read a nice post like yours, and it makes all the difference in the world. Thanks. Smile

And Barton, using the "Kool-Aid" line has been grounds for warnings on some forums. I think you could apologize to Oscar, and you'd earn more respect from many people. But having said that, let me apologize to you for my comments about hate. I was wrong to imply that you hate me, because I don't think you do. But you are supporting a movement that is based entirely on hatred. I've sent you a few of Doug Poirier's comments. You should read them carefully, and ask yourself what kind of a man would write such vulgar and threatening filth. Is that someone you'd want to support? Is that someone who's ideas you would trust? I agree with Janyce that you're probably taking your position because you believe it. But could you be wrong? Are you absolutely sure you can trust people who hide their accusations behind a secret web site where I can't defend myself? Is that how you would like to be treated?

Finally, I am sorry to have to bring these mostly Torrey problems to Sylmar. But Sylmar is one of the greatest hang gliding clubs in Southern California, and you have the strength to help our struggling hang gliding movement in San Diego. We've been through a lot of abuse, and now we're finally shaking the despots from our backs. Your help has been appreciated in the past, and I hope some day we can return the favor. If nothing else, please come down and be our guests on the Second Sunday of every month!!

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
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barton



Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 155
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

edited 6.20.2018

Last edited by barton on Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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OSCAR



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 489
Location: LONG BEACH,CA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

sip it slowly, Don't forget your old friend Karma. Wink
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max



Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 222
Location: LAWNDALE CA.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Oscar are you sure it's the Cool-Aid, for a moment I thought it was the Rome syndrome but Barton beaten by far,are there in the same age group? Dammit now I have to stop drinking Cool-Aid Crying or Very sad
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OSCAR



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 489
Location: LONG BEACH,CA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yes I'm sure it's the Cool -aid He's been hanging around those friends of his Rolling Eyes ,and they've clouded his judgement.Poor guy,...One can't help but to feel sorry for him, Razz He's digging himself in deep,and Karmas not going to forgive nor forget.And she will come around.as you well know.

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max



Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 222
Location: LAWNDALE CA.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I agree Oscar Laughing
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Bob Kuczewski



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 575
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Barton, I went to the web site, but it doesn't give pilots the chance to ask questions of the new candidate. So Barton could you please pass these questions on to Bill Helliwell for me? Please post his response if you don't mind. Thanks.

Questions for Regional Director Candidate Bill Helliwell:

1. Bill, would you support some form of the "Accountability Amendment"?

That proposed amendment to the USHPA bylaws would specify a set of rules (Robert's Rules of Order) for the Board so they don't get made up on the fly. It also sets a threshold for some number of Directors (1 in the current version) to be able to call the roll so all USHPA members would have a better chance of knowing how their own Directors have voted. Please let me know what variations of this you would support.

2. Bill, would you work to open up the EC meetings to all Directors? The USHPA Board only meets twice a year, and the EC makes all kinds of decisions between those meetings. I feel it would be healthy for the EC to welcome all Board members to its meetings - especially those with differing or dissenting opinions. Would you back that change?

3. Bill, would you work to balance the Torrey Pines Soaring Council by adding the Torrey Hawks? The Torrey Hawks have been applying to the Soaring Council since September of 2007 and USHPA has not offered one word of support for increasing our representation on that Council by adding the Hawks. Much of this resistance by USHPA has been based on personal vendettas. Would you work to end this resistance by USHPA and support adding the Hawks to the Council?

4. Bill, as you may know, David Beardslee was kicked out of Torrey Pines for life, and I was kicked out for a year. Neither David Beardslee or myself were given a written reason for those suspensions and neither of us were given any due process or recourse. The SDHGPA refused to represent either of our interests and refused to bring it up at the Soaring Council - while you were on the board of the SDHGPA. What would you do to correct that in the future?

Thanks in advance for your response. For me it's never been about personalities (either nice one's like yours - or not so nice one's like Jebb's). For me it's always been about fairness for our pilots. If you can reassure me (possibly with some actions?) that you share that perspective, I might just give you my own vote!!

I look forward to your answers.

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
Regional Director - USHPA Region 3
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enoonmai



Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If it walks like a Bob and talks like a Bob it must be a Bob. Looks like Bob want his replacement to be Bob but maybe nicer.
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OSCAR



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 489
Location: LONG BEACH,CA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List


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Bob Kuczewski



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 575
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Old Fart wrote:
If it walks like a Bob and talks like a Bob it must be a Bob. Looks like Bob want his replacement to be Bob but maybe nicer.

I think we should be electing our representatives based on issues first and personalities second.

I'd rather have a not-so-nice guy who wants to do the right thing than a nice smooth guy who wants to do the wrong thing.

The worst case for the first guy is that he gets nowhere.
But the best case for the second guy is that he gets nowhere.

Think about it. Smile
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enoonmai



Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

From all my reading of this forum in the last few days I think we got the nice guy who wants to do everything right but does it the wrong way and gets nothing done cause he acts like the not so nice guy. So can we get the nice guy that wants to do right and knows how to act nice so he gets something done?
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Bob Kuczewski



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 575
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Old Fart wrote:
From all my reading of this forum in the last few days I think we got the nice guy who wants to do everything right but does it the wrong way and gets nothing done cause he acts like the not so nice guy. So can we get the nice guy that wants to do right and knows how to act nice so he gets something done?


Well, the first question should be what is the "something" that we want done? That's why I posted the questions for Bill. If he's really willing to support those goals, then I really might give him my vote.

I only volunteered for this job because I saw something that needed to be done and no one else was doing it. Joe Greblo can tell you that I urged him (and a few others) to run against David Jebb so I wouldn't have to do it. But Joe (and the others) weren't available, and that's why you got stuck with me. Smile

So really, I have no problem stepping down if someone better is willing to step up. But that better person should be working toward the same ideals that got me elected or I would be cheating those who voted for me last year. That's one thing that I won't do.

And that brings something else to mind. When I ran for RD in 2008, I wrote a few statements that I'd like to post. Maybe you can take a look at them to see if I've lived up to what I promised.

Bob K.
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Bob Kuczewski



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 575
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Since the discussion is about recalling me, maybe it would be helpful to see what I promised when I was elected (with email addresses updated)...

USHPA Magazine wrote:
Bob Kuczewski's Regional Director Candidate Statement for Region 3 (2008)

I can sum up my platform in two sentences:

Flying should be fun.
Flying should be fair.

I believe USHPA should focus on the fair part. That leaves the fun up to you.

It's no secret that my candidacy is founded on restoring fairness at the Torrey Pines Gliderport. We've seen too many pilots (both hang gliding and paragliding) be mistreated there in the past 10 years. I believe USHPA should take a more active role in resolving whatever problems exist to ensure that all qualified pilots can have fair access to that site. I will work toward that goal.

Of course a Regional Director must serve more than one site. We deserve a Regional Director who visits Kagel, Crestline, Elsinore, Soboba, Horse, Little Black, and many others. Is that what we have now? I will work to protect all of our fragile sites.

But most of all, we need a Regional Director who cares about pilots and pilot issues. We have many Regional Directors who run businesses, and I think running a hang gliding or paragliding business is very good for our sports. But we are an association of pilots not businesses. Fortunately, most business operators who are also Regional Directors can separate the two and do a good job representing pilots while running their business. Several great examples come to mind, and I applaud them. But I do not believe this is true of the incumbent. If I am elected, I will be a voice for you. I will work to represent your views. You can be sure that Mr. Jebb will continue to have influence at USHPA whether he is Regional Director or not. But who will speak for the pilots in our region? I will.

There's a lot more to say about many topics (site preservation, growth of our sports, mediation, HG/PG balance, etc.), and there's so little space here. So let me offer a few resources. Please read my statements and endorsements at torreyhawks.org/R3. Please write to me at bobkuczewski@gmail.com. Most importantly, please call me at 858-204-7499 anytime. I want to be YOUR Regional Director, and I will work for YOU.

Finally, the obligatory flying resume...

I began flying steerable canopies at Fort Benning in 1976 (US Army Jump School). I began flying airplanes in 1978, earned a private pilot's license in 1979, and a sea plane rating in 1980. I flew my first hang glider flights in 1978, first paraglider flights in 1990, and I currently hold an H4/P4 rating. I earned a Bachelor of Science in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering in 1983, and my senior project was a wind tunnel test of a model hang glider. In 2007, I began flying sailplanes and became the first pilot to fly a hang glider, paraglider, sailplane, and RC in one day at the Torrey Pines Gliderport (see "Pilot Profile" in August 2007 magazine).

Thanks for reading this, but please take just a few more minutes to make it count. Please mail in your ballot!!

USHPA's September 2008 Email Broadcast wrote:
Bob Kuczewski's Region 3 Director Email Statement (September 2008)

Members of Region 3,

My name is Bob Kuczewski, and I am an H4/P4 pilot from the San Diego area. I flew my first hang glider flights in 1978 and my first paraglider flights in 1990. But I didn't take up these sports seriously until 2004. I also have a private pilot's license (with a seaplane rating) from the late 70's, and I've flown sailplanes and RC models as well. I hold a Bachelor of Science degree in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering, and I've worked as an engineer for almost 25 years. I've published numerous papers in the field of artificial intelligence and I hold a United States patent on an interactive learning system for kids. You can read my pilot profile in the August 2007 edition of Hang Gliding & Paragliding Magazine.

In 2007 I founded the Torrey Hawks Hang Gliding Club, and we've grown from 7 members to almost 130 members in that short time. I have also been a supporting club member at Sylmar, Crestline, Elsinore, Soboba, Horse, Little Black, Torrey, and others. I have written letters, spoken at meetings, and made financial contributions to help preserve many of those sites. I have worked for two years to bring the multi-wingual Torrey Pines Soaring Council back together, and I am the only hang glider or paraglider pilot to attend all of the Council's meetings in those two years.

I want to be your regional director because I want all pilots in our region (both hang gliding and paragliding) to have better representation at USHPA.

Here are some things that I will do (including many that I've already done):

I will work toward fairness for all pilots at all sites.
I will support the rights of all pilots to fly safely at all sites.
I will write letters and attend meetings for site preservation.
I will ensure that all local clubs get fair representation at USHPA.
I will maintain an open door policy for all comments from all pilots.
I will support hang gliding and paragliding fairly and equally.
I will represent pilots and businesses fairly and equally.

More importantly, here's what I won't do:

I will NOT bully pilots.
I will NOT suspend flying privileges without due process.
I will NOT endorse USHPA SOP changes that threaten individual rights.
I will NOT use my Regional Directorship to obtain awards for my own business.
I will NOT support disparate site ratings (P0/H4) for monetary benefit.
I will NOT prevent qualified tandem pilots from flying at any sites.
I will NOT put business interests ahead of pilot's interests.

I am passionate about both flying and fairness, but there's far more to say on these topics than I can squeeze into 500 words. Here are some additional resources:

- Statements and Endorsements: torreyhawks.org/R3
- Write to me any time: bobkuczewski@gmail.com
- Call me any time, for any reason (or any challenge): 858-204-7499

Most of all, please vote. USHPA is only your club if you speak with your ballot.

Thank you,
Bob Kuczewski

USHPA's December 2008 Email Broadcast wrote:
Bob Kuczewski's Region 3 Director Email Statement (December 2008)

Members of Region 3,

What do the following pilots (from A to Z) all have in common?

Jack Axaopoulos, Dave Beardslee, Jesse Benson, Ernie Casco, Jeff Chipman, Dan DeWeese, Jonathan Dietch, James Gaar, Shane Gorman, Joe Greblo, John Heiney, Teddy Mack, Steve Pearson, John Pitt, Malury Silberman, Theda Silver-Pell, George Stebbins, Freddy Wagner, Kenny Westfall, John Wright, and Mike Zeller

To find out, please visit:

http://torreyhawks.org/r3/ENDORSE.HTM

There's a lot I could say in this last pre-election message, but I think these fine pilots have said it much better in their own words. Please read what they've written, and please take the time to vote.

I don't know if I will have enough votes to win (that's up to each of you), but I am confident that I will have enough votes to make an important statement about fairness in our sports and about fairness in our representatives. I am a pilot first, and I promise to represent a pilot's perspective at USHPA. If you don't know me or would like more information, please call me any time at 858-204-7499 or send me an email message at:

bobkuczewski@gmail.com

Most of all, please make USHPA your club by casting your ballot. While USHPA may contain an "H" and a "P", it's important to remember that the first letter in USHPA is ... "you".
Thanks for your time.

Bob Kuczewski
H4, P4, Private Pilot (Single Engine Land and Sea), Former US Army Paratrooper / Ranger
Engineer - Bachelor of Science in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering (U.W. 1983)
President and Founder - Torrey Hawks Hang Gliding Club (USHPA Chapter #270)
Candidate - Region 3 Director
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max



Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 222
Location: LAWNDALE CA.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Old Fart do you have a real name Question because we have many old farts in this club including myself, so don't be afraid to post you real name. Rolling Eyes And if you are really adventurous you might post picture of yourself Wink
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Bob Kuczewski



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

There are lots of different forums where people can post stuff, and not everyone reads every forum. So when I post something directed at a particular person, I generally like to contact them directly to let them know about it.

In that spirit, I sent an email message to Bill Helliwell last night to let him know about the 4 questions that I had asked him above. I also wanted to know if he had a preference for one particular forum where we might debate the issues. Here's the email discussion so far:

Bob Kuczewski wrote:
Hi Bill,

I'm a big fan of public debate so everyone can find out where candidates stand on the issues. So I've posted 4 questions for you at several web sites. Here are 3 references:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18620
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?p=164099#164099
http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1832

They're mostly the same (with slightly different introductions to fit the context of the posts), and I've included one of them below.

My main question right now is to ask your preference between hanggliding.org and the Oz Report for your own convenience of posting responses. If you prefer one over the other, then I'll be happy to post to that site. Please let me know as soon as possible.

Thanks in advance,
Bob Kuczewski

Bill Helliwell wrote:
Bob,

I am not part of the recall. If the recall process goes through I may be nominated. At that time I will post my qualifications wherever I think it is appropriate.

If you want to debate, join a debate club. If you want to fly join USHPA.

Regards, Bill

Bob Kuczewski wrote:
Hi Bill,

Thanks for responding. My questions weren't about your qualifications (which reflect your past). My questions were about your positions (which affect our future).

I'll be posting your response to the sites that I mentioned. Again, I request that you enter these discussions on at least one region-wide forum to let our pilots know where you stand on issues that affect their organization.

Thanks in advance,

Bob Kuczewski

I haven't heard back from Bill yet.
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