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Calling USHPA's Bluff
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Bob Kuczewski



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 508
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:32 pm    Post subject: Calling USHPA's Bluff Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ken Andrews is a nice enough guy. He follows in the footsteps of many "nice enough" guys Region 3. I would include Bill Helliwell, Dan DeWeese, and Alan Crouse among them. But when it comes to dealing with USHPA's "insiders", Ken is out of his league (and I don't mean the Falcon League).

The USHPA insiders chew up and use "nice enough guys" like pawns. Here's a current example.

A long time Torrey Pilot wrote to Ken complaining about USHPA's unfair expulsion of Bob Kuczewski (that's me). Here's part of Ken's reply:

Ken Andrews wrote:
"Iíve told Bob many times that if he would stop attacking Torrey and USHPA, then I would work to get his membership reinstated so that he could fly at USHPA sites again. So far, Bob has refused my offers."
- USHPA Region 3 Director Kenneth Andrews, April 16th, 2016


Here's my message to Ken (sent a few minutes ago):

Bob Kuczewski wrote:
Hello Ken (cc/bcc observers),

In a recent message to a USHPA member, you (USHPA Director Ken Andrews)
wrote:

Quote:
"Iíve told Bob many times that if he would stop attacking Torrey and USHPA, then I would work to get his membership reinstated so that he could fly at USHPA sites again. So far, Bob has refused my offers."

- USHPA Region 3 Director Kenneth Andrews, April 16th, 2016


OK Ken, I'm calling your bluff. Please write up EXACTLY - and in the form of a contract - the precise terms and conditions that I would be required to abide by for you to work to get my USHPA membership reinstated so that I can fly at what you've called "USHPA sites" again. Please write this in an unambiguous and objective manner such that it would be enforceable in a court of law.

I look forward to your reply.

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
858-204-7499


It will be interesting to see Ken's response. If he lists the "purported" reasons for USHPA's expulsion (things like "interfering with instruction" or "endangering tandem pilots on landing"), then they'll be forced to reinstate me because I've never done those things and would agree not to ever do them (as we all should). But if he lists the real reasons (things like "to be a USHPA member, you can't be critical of USHPA" or "to be a USHPA member, you can't speak to your City Council or testify in a court case") then he's going to show what was really behind the expulsion.

Ken's a smart guy, and it will be interesting to see how he handles this one. My guess is that USHPA (and Tim Herr) will urge him to find an excuse to avoid answering altogether. That's my prediction. But like I said, it will be interesting to see what happens.
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dhmartens



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 819
Location: Reseda

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

With 42 days left before the RRG kicks in I doubt the non-paid volunteers of USHPA will address this issue before that time.

BobK's civil rights are being violated

Link


BobK has consistently for years highlighted safety violations before they degenerated into multiple $2 million insurance payouts that USHPA (Did not win)

USHPA revoked his flying privileges which amounts to torture.

Link


Palmaz says the RRG is owned by Flight schools, Forbes says it is owned by the members who pay dues, USHPA doesn't even know who owns it. BobK should be on the BoD of the RRG since he can sniff out troubles "BEFORE" they occur . Even Palmaz agrees we need a culture change.

I think the problem is with the paraglider harnesses because they cause you to crash in a fetal position and not foot first as God intended.

I say we start a class action lawsuit against paraglider harness manufactures
http://artofgears.com/2016/01/27/honda-faces-lawsuit-thanks-to-critter-friendly-wiring-harnesses/

For those of you who fell into the beleif BobK is a pathological Liar without any actual evidence and just hearsay, you have fallen into a Scientology Brain Washing Technique( I cannot post the actual Scientology content here without retaliation) But they repeat something over and over and over, you will start to believe it.
See Auditing Thetans etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_Thetan

the fact is noone has any evidence BobK has lied, if they do they can sign a statement of truth with Contempt of Court punishment.

They all back away at that point.
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Bob Kuczewski



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 508
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

dhmartens wrote:
BobK's civil rights are being violated


BobK has consistently for years highlighted safety violations before they degenerated into multiple $2 million insurance payouts that USHPA (Did not win)

USHPA revoked his flying privileges which amounts to torture.

Palmaz says the RRG is owned by Flight schools, Forbes says it is owned by the members who pay dues, USHPA doesn't even know who owns it. BobK should be on the BoD of the RRG since he can sniff out troubles "BEFORE" they occur . Even Palmaz agrees we need a culture change.


For those of you who fell into the beleif BobK is a pathological Liar without any actual evidence and just hearsay, you have fallen into a Scientology Brain Washing Technique( I cannot post the actual Scientology content here without retaliation) But they repeat something over and over and over, you will start to believe it.
See Auditing Thetans etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_Thetan

the fact is noone has any evidence BobK has lied, if they do they can sign a statement of truth with Contempt of Court punishment.

They all back away at that point.


Thanks Doug. You've been paying attention. Smile

I won't go into the full history of my correspondence with Ken on this, but you can find it at US Hawks if you're interested:

http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2444

Here's the short version:

Ken told another pilot that he (Ken) would work to reinstate my USHPA membership if I would agree to "stop attacking Torrey and USHPA". Since I've never physically attacked anyone, Ken's statement is really telling me to stop being critical of the Torrey Concessionaire and USHPA. So I asked Ken to just spell it out:

Bob Kuczewski to Ken Andrews wrote:
OK, what does that mean?

Does that mean I can't take pictures of Gabe Jebb kiting without a helmet?
Does that mean I can't tell the City Council about violations at Torrey?
Does that mean I can't testify in court when they injure someone?
Does that mean I can't continue to operate the US Hawks?
Does that mean I can't post references to accidents?

What exactly are you asking me to do? Is it unreasonable for me to ask?

Just spell it out. If it's reasonable, I'm all for it. The ball is in your court.


All of a sudden, Ken had no reply. Ken knows very well that USHPA wants me to stop doing all of those things. But can those be a condition of membership in USHPA? Really?

The sad reality is that those are the conditions of membership in USHPA. They don't say so in any of their documents, and that's why USHPA couldn't find a single rule that I had violated during their expulsion witch hunt. But they expelled me anyway for exactly those unwritten rules.

Ken went on to write:

Quote:
Alternatively, I think it would be interesting if you decided to try building the US Hawks into a credible organization, rather than merely a website for a few people who want a public place to rant. If the Hawks were registered as a non-profit corporation, and had an elected board of directors, and bylaws, and a bank account, and dues, and a genuine membership list, then maybe it could provide member benefits such as insurance. If the US Hawks provided real competition to USHPA, that could be good for everyone.


I agree with Ken 100% on that one, and I'd like to ask the SHGA to consider becoming a US Hawks Chapter as well as a USHPA Chapter. It doesn't cost anything, and it begins to create and support exactly what Ken wrote:

Ken Andrews wrote:
If the US Hawks provided real competition to USHPA, that could be good for everyone.


Thanks Ken!!
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Last edited by Bob Kuczewski on Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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OP



Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 1134
Location: SFV

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

#recallken

He's in the pocket of 'big hang gliding' money.
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TerryH



Joined: 18 Dec 2012
Posts: 36
Location: Corona, CA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

OP wrote:
#recallken

He's in the pocket of 'big hang gliding' money.


Yeah. It's pretty easy to make a small fortune out of hang gliding. You just have to start with a big fortune...
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Bob Kuczewski



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 508
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

OP wrote:
#recallken

He's in the pocket of 'big hang gliding' money.

Something I didn't say - which tends to be your best form of argument.

TerryH wrote:
Yeah. It's pretty easy to make a small fortune out of hang gliding. You just have to start with a big fortune...

How many HG&PG tandems a year do you think they sell at Torrey?

When it comes to money in our sports, you're generally right. But Torrey is one of the glaring exceptions, and that makes them the tail that wags the dog.
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OP



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Have you every played ping pong with a wall?
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Bob Kuczewski



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 508
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

OP wrote:
Have you every played ping pong with a wall?


You mean like a meaningless, mindless response to every shot? Yup. You think you're "exercising the troll", but it might be you who's being "exercised".

Hang gliding was an insurable sport for decades until Rich Hass and Mark Forbes made it uninsurable by looking the other way on known safety abuses. You've got no justification for what has happened, but you play the joker while the sport goes down the toilet. Ha ha, give us another clever one-liner OP.

I'll ask again, how many HG&PG tandems a year do you think they sell at Torrey?

Follow the money.
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jimshaw



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bob, you are such an ornery cuss. You know that Ken will go out of his way to work in good faith for you. Thus, your ridiculous, over-the-top request just to call his bluff?!:

"OK Ken, I'm calling your bluff. Please write up EXACTLY - and in the form of a contract - the precise terms and conditions that I would be required to abide by for you to work to get my USHPA membership reinstated so that I can fly at what you've called "USHPA sites" again. Please write this in an unambiguous and objective manner such that it would be enforceable in a court of law."

And I can tell you, Ken is NOT and will never be, as you say "out of his league" in dealing with the USHPA "insiders". Ken is highly capable and can work most miracles IF you, Bob, will back off and, dare I say, embrace the USHP, or at least not make waves - you know what I mean?

And Ken is a very nice fellow to boot, not a "nice enough guy". (hell, he only hails about 20 miles from where I'm from is how I know:)

Bob, all your ranting above just goes to show you are not ready to join the "dark side". You still simply have too much hate, damn you:)

Peace Man...you may have a coronary!
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Bob Kuczewski



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Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hi Jim,

We have just have to disagree on this one. But there may be a few things you don't know.

For example, back in February, I asked very kindly for Ken to bring the matter of my unjust expulsion before the Board. I sent Ken the following suggested letter as a starting point:

Quote:
Members of the USHPA Board,

I am writing to ask that the reinstatement of Bob Kuczewski's USHPA membership be added to the agenda for the Spring 2016 Board meeting. I believe there are facts and issues which were not fully known by the Board at the time of the expulsion, and I believe the case deserves to be reviewed. I have known Bob for many years and I believe that some of the accusations levied against him were untrue. It also appears that the courts and the City of San Diego have upheld Bob's right to be at the Gliderport and have not found him guilty of any violations at that park. I would like the matter added to the agenda so the expulsion can be reviewed in the proper light. I am making this request as Regional Director of Region 3 which is Bob's home Region.

Sincerely,
K ...


Now that's not a very difficult letter for Ken to back. It doesn't even lay blame on USHPA. It simply says that they didn't have all the facts at the time. For example, at the time of the expulsion, the trespassing charges made by the Torrey concessionaire were still outstanding. Technically, the City Attorney has a year to bring charges from the date of the event, so even though no charges were filed at the time of the expulsion, they still could have at some later date. I'm sure the Torrey concessionaire was telling USHPA that would happen ... but it didn't. Similarly, I won the court case that Robin Marien had filed against me for a restraining order. But he claimed he was going to file an appeal which left the matter still unresolved. But earlier this year, he abandoned his appeal.

In other words, all of the allegations against me have either been proven false in a court of law or dismissed with no charges ever filed. I can now go to Torrey whenever I want, and I could fly there whenever I wanted if it weren't for USHPA's unjust expulsion.

Now Ken knows all of this, and he's seen the judge's ruling in my favor. He knew that well in advance of the USHPA Board meeting, and yet he refused to write a simple letter as I've suggested above.

OK, that's already pretty sad, but then he writes to another pilot (behind my back) with this statement:

Quote:
"Iíve told Bob many times that if he would stop attacking Torrey and USHPA, then I would work to get his membership reinstated so that he could fly at USHPA sites again. So far, Bob has refused my offers."
- USHPA Region 3 Director Kenneth Andrews, April 16th, 2016


I called that a "bluff" out of kindness to Ken. So I simply asked him to spell out what it means to "stop attacking Torrey and USHPA". I asked him to spell it out because I wanted to be sure we were on the same page, and I also figured that would cause him to think about what kinds of ridiculous conditions he was demanding.

I suspect that Ken did think about it and realized that asking someone to not speak to their City Council or testify in court in order to be a member of USHPA is - indeed - ridiculous (if not illegal). Now if Ken thinks it through, he will realize that the entire expulsion was a witch hunt. Then he will have to decide whether he stands up for justice or not.

No one is forced to run for Regional Director. Everyone who steps up for that job should understand that they have a responsibility to the pilots in their region. I upheld that responsibility during my time in the job and I expect Ken to do the same.[/quote]
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OP



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

U gonna hire a lawyer to write letters to Ken? I feel this is next logical step in the progression of things.
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jimshaw



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hey Bob,

Sorry to say, you still don't get it. And I tried before you will remember!

1) First, make your comments short and sweet. Life is short!

2) Let go of the past entirely (AND THE POLITICS)! You are carrying too
much baggage and everyone is tired of hearing and/or dealing with
it. Additionally, we don't want any more POLITICS at Sylmar. We've
had enough POLITICAL problems at our site in the past. And, we
don't want a problematic person in our club!

3) Forget your demands for Ken and others to do it YOUR way. Let them
get you in their way, out of liking you again because you have
left the past behind.

4) We at Sylmar don't give a damn about you and Torrey, you and other
USHPA members and officials, you and....... (insert whatever here).

5) We at Sylmar just want to fly, and have a beer after with our buds,
and shoot the shit. (Simplistic I know. I drink wine! I digress. We
here at SHGA are about more than this, obviously, but let's you and
us start here!)

6) Seek refuge from life, past problems and people, here at Sylmar with
us. Turn your back on all the past shit. In other words, face the sun,
fly, drink beer and don't talk about the past!

Bob, turn your back on the past crap. No one, and I mean no one here at Sylmar gives a shit (excuse my language people - just to make a point).

Now if you write another he said/she said back at me after all the above I will not respond.

And if YOU LET Ken get you in, you are NOT to bring the legacy problems to Sylmar. Additionally, no waves from anything you experience, see, hear as a future Sylmarian. If I were Ken, I would almost make you sign a contract saying so!

What say you (remember, short and sweet and nothing of the past, I challenge you, you ole cuss!).
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Bob Kuczewski



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your good intentions.

Have you read the US Declaration of Independence? I don't mean as an adolescent with your arm twisted in a classroom, but as an adult with a handful of decades behind you. I have a copy on my desk. It's shorter than many forum topics.

The US Revolution wasn't unanimously endorsed. There were many (coincidentally called "Tory"s) who supported the king. They were OK with:

- Taxation without representation
- Forced quartering of solders on private property
- Trials without jury and without due process
- Unwarranted searches and seizures

They were the "girls just wanna have fun" crowd of their time. They may have even been in the majority.

Fortunately there were also those who were willing to stand up against tyranny ... to "pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor".

I understand that "politics" isn't fun. It's not hanging out in the LZ after a 2 hour flight telling stories and laughing. But politics is the hard work against tyranny that gives us the ability to hang out in the LZ after a 2 hour flight telling stories and laughing.

As it stands right now, I cannot land in the Sylmar LZ. Have you ever seen me do anything that would cause the Sylmar club to ban me from landing there? No. And neither has Ken nor OP nor Joe Greblo nor anyone else. Yet USHPA has the power to force your club to keep me from landing in your LZ as punishment for testifying in a court of law where a young woman was badly injured by the reckless actions of the irresponsible thugs at Torrey. Apparently, OP is just fine with that ... as long as it doesn't happen to him.

Many folks look back at the US Revolution and kid themselves that they "know" they would have had the courage to stand up against tyranny. We will never know. The injustices of USHPA are a "tempest in a teapot" compared to the US Revolution. But if people won't stand up for injustices to others in this little microcosm, they are surely kidding themselves that they would risk their lives, fortunes and sacred honor ... unless their own ox was being gored.

I came to this fight because my friend (John Heiney) asked me to help his friend (David Beardslee) who I had never even met. Like seeing someone stranded by the side of the road, I wanted to just drive on by. But like seeing someone stranded by the side of the road, I knew the right thing to do was stop and help. I did that and it changed my life. While I certainly miss flying at Sylmar and Crestline and Funston and Torrey, I am very proud to have taken that detour. It's caused me to work to put our right to fly on a solid footing that's not at the whim of USHPA's cronies. That's what we're doing at the US Hawks, and you're welcome to join us.
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jimshaw



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bob,

Look inside yourself. For some reason you really don't want to help the people or causes you say you stand for. There were (are) much better ways that would actually have gone much further to help those people and causes you speak of, and without all the toxicity and vitriolic nonsense that came along with it.

The loud, obnoxious "in your face" way that that you went about it has hindered you in your supposed quest. The so "in your face" style. A bull in a china shop come to mind.

Bob, since pretty much all the china has been smashed, now what?
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Bob Kuczewski



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

jimshaw wrote:
... now what?


Only the dysfunctional china of USHPA's monopoly is being smashed Jim.

The US Hawks is growing every day. We are working on rating systems, insurance, and recreational land use statutes. We are building a site where local clubs can join together to share information and resources. We're doing the things that USHPA should be doing.

Here's a link to our current active topics page:

http://ushawks.org/forum/search.php?search_id=active_topics

Here's a link to an image showing what it looks like today (you might have to copy it in your browser):

[img]http://ushawks.org/forum/download/file.php?id=7557[/img]

I worked for years to get USHPA to support openness and justice. Their "kangaroo court" expulsion was the "thanks" I got.

The US Hawks isn't for everyone, but neither is USHPA. We appeal to those who find it repulsive that USHPA should be expelling people for purely political reasons. We appeal to those who would have proudly signed that Declaration of Independence in 1776. USHPA appeals to those who wouldn't.
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jimshaw



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Good deal on creating an alternative. I wish you all the best. I don't personally have the inclination to look into it as the USHPA suits me just fine.

Are you interested in dual citizenship?
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Bob Kuczewski



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

jimshaw wrote:
Good deal on creating an alternative. I wish you all the best. I don't personally have the inclination to look into it as the USHPA suits me just fine.


Having alternatives is good whether you need them or not. Imagine if there were just one auto insurance company. If you testify against one of their reckless members in court ... they drop you and you can't drive anywhere in the US.

jimshaw wrote:
Are you interested in dual citizenship?


The US Hawks has lots of dual members and chapters. Our chapters include:

- Rio Grande Soaring Assn in New Mexico
- Shasta Sky Sailors in Northern California
- Torrey Hawks in San Diego
- Austin Free Flight Association in Texas
- Tooele Hawks in Salt Lake City
- South Central New York Hang Gliders in N.Y.
- Southwest Texas Hang Gliders in Texas
- Friends of Dockweiler Gliding Society in Los Angeles
- Mo Hawks in Missouri

Many have been both US Hawks and USHPA chapters. A number of them have dropped their USHPA affiliation, but others still have both.

Come join us and support choice in the sport of hang gliding. Membership is free and ratings follow the FAA model of being good for life.
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OP



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What's the HGAA's stance on the USHawks?
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Bob Kuczewski



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

OP wrote:
What's the HGAA's stance on the USHawks?


OP, I'm ignoring your class clown comments, since they're obviously not a serious discussion of the topic.

The focus of this topic is Ken's false claim that he would work to reverse an unjust expulsion.

Quote:
"Iíve told Bob many times that if he would stop attacking Torrey and USHPA, then I would work to get his membership reinstated so that he could fly at USHPA sites again. So far, Bob has refused my offers."
- USHPA Region 3 Director Kenneth Andrews, April 16th, 2016


I did not refuse his offer (as he stated), and I called Ken's bluff by simply asking him to spell out the terms of what is considered "attacking".

Ken had no response because his "offer" was not a serious offer.

As I stated at the beginning of this topic, I don't believe Ken is a bad guy. Instead, I am trying to point out how USHPA backs its directors into corners where even good men (as I believe Ken is) are forced to take indefensible positions.

That is the purpose of this topic, and it's important because I believe it's a systemic problem at USHPA and results in many many bad decisions that are killing the sport of hang gliding.
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jimshaw



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Jeez Bob,

I have not talked to Ken and I don't need to because I damn well know he would not have made a false claim. Don't you realize when Ken (or anyone for that matter) is willing to go to bat for you, you simply ask too much in needing it all spelled out in writing. Just asking for a Code of Conduct shows you are not ready.

And instead of realizing he was doing you a BIG favor you write crap about him. In other words, your continuing toxicity probably gave him good reason to rescind his offer.

Bob, don't you realize what you are doing (or have become)? You are working as an outside disrupter, NO MATTER THE GRIEVANCES YOU MAY HAVE BEEN HANDED IN THE PAST, if any.

Take the USHPA to court if you feel you were wrongly treated or kicked out.

Remember, you are not a member of the USHPA. By soliciting USHPA members to act in certain ways against whatever it is about USHPA you do not like, or think is unfair, is not your business - plain and simple.

And you piss people off and burn your bridges everywhere you go. You have successfully pushed Ken, our past SHGA President, now Regional Director, and still SHGA member, too far in many (if not most) SHGA member's eyes.

You continue your personal attacks against SHGA members, on SHGA's own forum!

Because of you and your topic of choice the forum has had to create a separate political heading.

Because of you the forum administrator, along with the President and others of the SHGA, had to create/created a special ignore button!

I am surprised you are still allowed here on the forum, with your personal attacks, vitriolic nature and as a non USHPA, and by extension I believe not a member of the SHGA, your trying to get us members to vote your way in things not of your concern regarding the USHPA.

I bet your days are numbered here on the forum, or you will be left fending for yourself against the last man standing. OP, do ya here me - good luck!

Bob, I have come to the end of my writings here with you. I wish you all the best in your other endeavors. I look forward to bumping into you in the future and chatting about anything other than the USHPA, Torrey, and related stuff.
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