Dockweiler Beach Closing

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greblo
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Dockweiler Beach Closing

Post by greblo »

Friends of Windsports and Dockweiler Hang Gliding,
I'm afraid I have bad news.

My insurance company has declined to renew Windsports insurance policy for the coming year due to a high insurance claims rate in industry during the past year. After 2 weeks of researching, my broker is not optimistic that I will be able to get insurance that will satisfy the county of Los Angeles as required in my contract to run Dockweiler.

All of this in spite of a 42 year history without a single insurance claim from Windsports.

Nevertheless, it remains likely that Windsports will be required by the county of Los Angeles to cease operating the Dockweiler Beach site beginning September 9th.

Unless something changes, and it's unlikely things will change, hang glider flights at Dockweiler will become illegal under LA County Ordinance on that date.

This is of course problematic for Windsports, but also for hang gliding and the clubs, pilots and friends that have come to rely on the site, as the current structure of the hang gliding permit requires an exclusive, county licensed operator to manage and monitor all hang gliding activities there. That operator is required to have insurance that is currently unobtainable through USHPA or any other source at this point in time.

Dockweiler Beach is a tremendously valuable resource for hang gliding as it is the only training location in the city of Los Angeles. Without it, it may be impossible for any hang gliding instructor or school to bring new pilots into our sport, thus leading to a slow attrition of hang gliding participants in and around L.A.

Windsports will continue booking and teaching students through Sunday, September 6th and the site will remain open as usual until that date. After that, I anticipate the site will be closed to flying of any kind as county code makes it illegal to hang glide or paraglide on any L.A. County beach unless in a county designated area and with a permit from the Department of Beaches and Harbors.

I have lots to try to do in a short time so I apologize if I'm not able to take every phone call or answer every email in a timely fashion. I expect I'll be using the SHGA forum to keep pilots aware of what transpires in the weeks ahead.

Currently there will be no changes in our mountain training operations.

All the best,


joe

Joe Greblo
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JD
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End of an Era?

Post by JD »

Joe,
We all wish you the best of luck and a miracle or two in keeping Dockweiller open. Would a letter writing campaign to the city of L.A. and Council Person be of any value? I can only imagine the numbers of injury accidents of cyclists and pedestrians on the paved paths has been significant while no liability insurance is required from path users or beach-goers for that matter. We live in some strange times.
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Bob Kuczewski
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Friends of Dockweiler Gliding Society Meeting

Post by Bob Kuczewski »

I've spoken with some of the officers of the new Friends of Dockweiler Gliding Society and they're going to discuss this issue at the upcoming "Sunday Funday" on August 16th, 2015. Saving Dockweiler will require a lot of help from the hang gliding community, and I hope the SHGA will lend their support.
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Bob Kuczewski
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Post by Bob Kuczewski »

http://bos.co.la.ca.us/LinkClick.aspx?f ... portalid=1
AGENDA FOR THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA

TUESDAY, AUGUST 18, 2015, 9:30 A.M.

BOARD HEARING ROOM 381B

KENNETH HAHN HALL OF ADMINISTRATION
500 WEST TEMPLE STREET
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90012

AGENDA POSTED: August 13, 2015
MEETING TELEVISED: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 10:00 p.m. on KLCS
PUBLIC INPUT AT BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETINGS

The meetings of the Board of Supervisors are open to the public. A member of the public requesting to address the Board on an agenda item will be allowed a total of three (3) minutes per meeting, and a request to address the Board must be submitted in person to the Executive Officer of the Board prior to the item being called. The Board may limit the public input on any item, based on the number of people requesting to speak and the business of the Board.

In addition, a member of the public has the right to address the Board on items of interest which are within the subject matter jurisdiction of the Board. A person may make a presentation on a non-agenda item, but the presentation shall not exceed three minutes in length.
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Loren
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Write to USHPA

Post by Loren »

I think that the letter-writing campaign would be better directed to the USHPA. They are supposed to be capable of securing site insurance, aren't they? What good do the dues we pay do us if they can't help keep such a historic and invaluable site open?
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USHPA Site Insurance

Post by AlC »

Loren:

USHPA Site Insurance is available to any chapter (like SHGA) but not for commercial operations (like schools). I don't know if that is any help in this situation, but it is out there.

- Alan
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Re: USHPA Site Insurance

Post by Bob Kuczewski »

Loren wrote:I think that the letter-writing campaign would be better directed to the USHPA. They are supposed to be capable of securing site insurance, aren't they? What good do the dues we pay do us if they can't help keep such a historic and invaluable site open?
I believe USHPA has failed our sports by playing favorites at sites like Torrey (and possibly elsewhere). USHPA leadership failed to take action for years when they knew that oversight was needed. It was just a matter of time until someone was injured badly enough to make a credible claim against the insurance company. USHPA claims that we're a self-regulated sport, but they failed to provide the oversight that's implied by the term "self-regulation".
AlC wrote:Loren:

USHPA Site Insurance is available to any chapter (like SHGA) but not for commercial operations (like schools). I don't know if that is any help in this situation, but it is out there.

- Alan
That's not true Alan. The Torrey Hawks applied for site insurance at Torrey Pines in 2009 and that policy was never granted. USHPA has played games with their insurance coverage to protect the economic interests of their buddies and this is part of the result.
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Malury
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Post by Malury »

Although this is very bad news, we need to be careful and thoughtful about mounting any political efforts.
Joe G is very gifted when it comes to dealing with politicians and Joe has much more at stake then most of us. Lets let him call the shots on any efforts to bring political pressure to bear. He understands the legal structure and the arrangements of the county, the city and Sylmar. So lets give him time to work it out. Cool your jets, for now.
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dhmertans
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Post by dhmertans »

Malury wrote:... we need to be careful and thoughtful about mounting any political efforts.
Don't worry Malury, I've got this under control. I've been busy sending various interested parties my notes on the case. Some telepathically, some hypo-retroactively, some even homeopathically.

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AlC
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Not again :-(

Post by AlC »

Bob:

You've got me! Saying "USHPA Site Insurance is available to any chapter..." was not fully correct. I should have said "USHPA Site Insurance is available to any chapter that has a role in actively managing the site".

Now if you (Bob) want to argue about Torrey or USHPA or the Hawks please take it to the Politics/off-topic area. This thread is too important to hijack. I think we are both here to see if there is anything positive we can contribute.

Again, I don't know if the USHPA site insurance is a useful tool to assist in keeping Dockweiler open. But it is available to SHGA.

- Alan
greblo
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Post by greblo »

Trying to find someone to blame is not helpful. The county needs to protect itself from liability and their requirements are not unreasonable. It's not their fault and it's not the fault of the rich haas or mark forbes or USHPA.

It's no more than an unfortunate fact of life.

People are working on ways to solve this problem and I'm at least hopeful at this point.

I should know more in a week or so. Please don't contact the city or county at this point

Thanks to all my friends.

Joe
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Post by Bob Kuczewski »

Joe,

Your diplomacy is admirable, but this world operates on cause and effect. That's why the NTSB combs through wreckage looking for the causes - not for the sake of "blame" - but to fix them. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Alan wrote: Not again :-(
I'll repeat it for you Alan: Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Pilots who haven't wanted Torrey discussed on this forum are now sadly learning that what happens at Torrey affects Dockweiler. What happens at Torrey affects Sylmar. What happens at Torrey affects Crestline. USHPA and our recent Region 3 Directors have taken a "hands off" approach at Torrey and that decision has consequences everywhere. The problems at Torrey ARE problems for Sylmar.

The Torrey paragliding school has been running a dangerous out-of-control operation for years. I reported it to USHPA before I was a Director, while I was a Director, and after I was a Director. USHPA - and every other Director - KNEW about the problems and looked the other way. It was only a matter of time (tic toc) until someone was badly injured and filed a lawsuit. That accident happened in July of 2011 (when I was living in Florida). Here's a link to one news report:

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15138240/para ... -at-torrey

A young woman was badly injured as a result of that crash. At the time she was a P1 student being "radio controlled" by a Torrey instructor who failed to clear the area before bringing her in for a landing. She was following his instructions right up to the point of the crash with another Torrey student. As a P1 pilot she did not have the judgment nor the skills to be top landing at Torrey Pines in the presence of other traffic without relying 100% on the directions from her instructor. She followed his instructions - right to the hospital.

To this date, I have been the ONLY USHPA Regional Director willing to apply pressure for oversight at Torrey Pines. All other Directors have looked the other way. They've all gone along to get along (Alan Crouse included). Their chickens are now coming home to roost.
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Re: Not again :-(

Post by Bob Kuczewski »

AlC wrote:Bob:

You've got me!
Translation: Alan tried to say something that wasn't true and didn't get away with it.
AlC wrote:Saying "USHPA Site Insurance is available to any chapter..." was not fully correct. I should have said "USHPA Site Insurance is available to any chapter that has a role in actively managing the site".
That's not quite true either. During the time that the Torrey Hawks was applying for site insurance at Torrey Pines, we were representing the sport of hang gliding on the Torrey Pines City Park Advisory Board - an official organization tasked with advising the City on the Gliderport. Look it up.

The fact is that USHPA's decision to deny our 2009 application for site insurance was 100% politically motivated to protect the concessionaire at Torrey. That's the same concessionaire who would later be responsible for the crash I described above and the consequences for insuring our sports everywhere.

Alan, your chickens are coming home to roost.
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Moderation Request

Post by Bob Kuczewski »

Moderation Request ...

Brad Hall recently started a parallel topic titled "Dockweiler insurance". His choice to start a new topic on the same subject divides the discussion and orphan's Joe Greblo's original topic and his opening post.

If possible, it might be helpful to join the topics so the discussion remains coherent. All of the posts in Brad's new topic were made subsequent to the last post in this topic, so there will be no undesireable "interleaving" of posts if the two are merged.

Finally, as a matter of forum management policy, I've found it to be a good idea to merge topics in cases like these so that neither becomes "orphaned". Allowing people to start new topics on the same subject scatters the subject matter and makes it difficult to follow. In this example, Brad quotes Joe Greblo's post, but Joe's post is not found in Brad's new topic. Merging the two topics keeps it all together and coherent.

Thanks for your consideration.
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Post by Mike M »

Locking the topic. The conversation has run its course.
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