I found out I could give you all three options which was important for those who think the gazebo is not an issue. Hope everyone revisits.
About submitting plans: I think it will be better to decide if there is anything to do first and what most members think that is. Then we can make plans to choose.
Chip wrote:Polls can only be voted on once. If you are not being given the option to vote then the board (the forum) has already recorded your vote. This is kept track by username, so you CANNOT go to another computer and vote again. I tested this with another account to validate the functionality, and it's working as designed on PC's and Mac's.
I'm for a new one, and yes I voted. Shade is not much of an issue at the moment since it's winter. It would be nice if we could get it done before spring.
I'd like to see a concrete slab under the gazebo (keeps down on dirt and dust). Get the misters working nice for the hot summer days. An obervation deck on top with a safety rail. A radio box (2M) with speakers so the launch and flying action can be monitored. Extra power outlets.
This thing would need to be plenty sturdy to support the observation deck. It would need to be limited to 10 people or less. Obervation deck should be considered optional (nice to have).
I don't understand why an "observation deck" is necessary? Can people not see from six feet below? Is higher a better vantage point to watch landings? Seems like you would be able to see less of what the pilot is doing.
I think what would happen is that people would go "oh cool - lets go up and see" stay for 5 minutes and then come down and sit back in the shade. Probably about like the seats out by the windsock...
I think an update is in order but we are close enough to the action without building some elaborate "observation deck"
Radio is a great idea... everyone can listen to Dimmer yammer on all day long...
I think there are other issues that are more important - like the bushes/trees.
I also agree with Chris regarding the likely use of an observation deck. Also, how do you limit the number of people/weight on the deck.
I haven't heard or personally seen what is really wrong with the existing structure. As for the misting system - that is easily replaced. As for Chip's comment regarding a concrete slap - I agree that it would be nice but not worth having to replace the entire structure to accomplish it.
Dimmer? Who's Dimmer? Hasn't your membership expired by now! By the way, how much $ is the association going to buy me out for if a new gazebo is built. You know...I have a business going on, on top the gazebo. (For those of you who don't know what I am talking about, come visit awhile.)
If I do not see any of you today (12/21) you all have a great holiday season (I and family are off to London through 1/2/07)!
The club will consider buying you out, Jim, when your business becomes a revenue center instead of a cost center. By the way, your lease payment is overdue. To avoid eviction please submit payment ASAP and don't forget the 25% late fee.
Keep those votes coming
Don, we can do bushes and trees, too. The projects need not be mutually exclusive.
If we choose to replace, concrete is not the only option. We could use pavers as long as we don't need the concrete for a foundation.
Oops! Bye, bye observation deck. Just musing right now, but as much as I like the idea of the deck, it may also be a liability issue. But let's decide on replacement, refurbishment or nothing, first.
Here is a link to company called Sunsports International they have really cool outdoor shading structures that would give our club a more permanent feel to visitors, neighbors & new pilots.
I think the gazebo needs to be retired. http://www.sunports.com/examples/index.asp?id=829
Jim never paid my advertizing & art department & for the installation of his sign.
I think there needs to be a private lounge for all the Atos pilots including a 50 inch plasma to view all the video footage that we shoot. Now it will be in HD.
The more I think about it the more I am convinced the modified container method is the way to go: Biggest bang-for-the-buck and sidesteps the permit problem entirely. All that is needed is land use permit:
Thanks for all your literal help. Literally speaking, you overlook the simple fact that no agreements were entered into. So 25% of nothing is nothing (by the way, I am already a paying member and owner)! And the sign is gratefully freeeee!
Additionally, a business need not make $ to be purchased. For example, Vonage was purchased by Ebay for 2.6 billion dollars although it's internet phone service is free. Furthermore, a business can not be considered a cost center if there are no business costs.
I guess you have figured out by now I have nothing to do with my time this morning! Off to London until January 2. Happy Holidays to all.
The reason the discussion about the gazebo was started is due to the fact that it is in need of repair, AND we don't have a place to get out of the weather. Now we could go home but...
The gazebo could be repaired without cutting down the plants if we just take our time.
We could have a real roof and 2 sliding doors at each end of the opening between the two storage boxes. We could build it strong enough to support a deck in the event the Board gives us the o.k.
This means that just about everyone is happy?
We could have two projects to keep us busy, and we won't have to give up our shade.
Now regarding permits:
1. We don't have a CUP(conditional use permit), so we can't pull a building permit, but maybe we could call it a shed or a barn with the zoning we're in? I say screw the permit and ask for forgiveness.
I'm surprised more board members haven't chimed in?
So now, all someone has to do is draw up a proposal and submit it to the board so they can shoot it down; or maybe, the board will tell us what they are willing to do.
You shoulda' seen it .......... no flyin today, so what else can we do ????
Well, Phil Bloom and Rick Holman decided to begin engineering the design of the gazebo upgrade and also discussed the likelihood of doing either a upgrade (rehab) of the existing gazebo or the design of a upgrade to the space between the storage lockers.
Either way it was a positive step to getting something on paper (or in our case scribbled on a some cardboard from a budlight carrying case).
If only the board will accept it in a "draft" format.
I just submitted my vote in the poll for repairing the existing gazebo.
It doesn’t need “just a little repair� though, but considering the budget, resources and uncertainties of new projects it is more reasonable to fix it up to better serve its function.
I came to this conclusion only today, because finally I got a chance to go take a good look at it. I encourage all the club members to do so, before they submit their votes.
The 2 major aspects of improvement I.M.O. are;
- Decent flooring (concrete only or concrete+tile/stone), (and I can help with that).
- The structure needs some reinforcement.
We could cover the roof (corrugated plastic or aluminum), clean up around, give it a fresh makeup and plant more vines.
Other than that there is always more to it to make it even better.
Like, for example, the 2 picnic tables inside is what makes it so uncomfortable. They take up all the space and are not comfortable to seat around, the way we do outside the gazebo. They don’t belong in there, they have to be put out and put some nice, low garden or teahouse benches, or patio type of seating to create some cozy clubhouse atmosphere inside (I’d like to fix the key pieces of it to the floor).
If we could go a little further along with this idea, then we could probably put up some railing around the part of a perimeter or may be even some partial walls, not too much, though, 1 or 2 sides only, in order to create a corner with information/bulletin board, power hookups, 2 meter radio, soda machine, payphone, circulations etc.
I’ll live out any washer/bathroom/toilet/sink discussion here, because it’s a totally different opera.
I did not also appreciate the idea of an observation deck.
Now, this is just an idea. I’ve red other ones in this forum too, and more of them hopefully yet to be expressed. Eventually it all comes down to one thing-BUDGET. I could just make some vague guestimates about how far my fantasies could go. But in any case working around what we already have is definitely going to cost less than anything else that has to be built from zero (BTW, to start from zero we still have to spend some more to demolish and dispose the old one), let alone if we could get away with a new building.
If the cost is not an issue, then, hey, I have some award winning plans…
So I hope the BOD is following closely this discussion and taking notes. I’d expect they recruit the most knowledgeable in the field members of the club and come up with final proposals.
Vrezh.
>>>- Decent flooring (concrete only or concrete+tile/stone)
- The structure needs some reinforcement.
Agree with that basic assessment.
To me, Ob deck unnecessary and impractical.
Work tables still needed under gazebo for students, but better seating yes.
Independent sun canopies for extended shade.
I'm glad I started this comotion, I just wanted to see what people would think, but I have to say, I still think it would be cool to have a deck. We could connect the two steel storage containers and have a shade canopy. It would be really cool to make an awning from an old hang glider. The storage containers provide the structural integrity neccesary for a small deck with a glider awning on top. There would have to be a safe stair case and railing for liability reasons. Beneath the deck, there could be hanging chairs or hammocks. And to take this even further, I think there should be a permanent clean restroom.
I've heard that some people have had difficulty in voting for this poll. If you can't vote, speak up.
BOD: Now what? There seems to be at least some interest in making the gazebo better; 13 of 15 want something done. That's only about 10% of the active membership but we never get much enthusiasm in this club anyway. The questions are, what can we do?
How much money does the club have to spend on this project?
If we're going to go with new construction, are we OK with no permits?
How willing is the BOD to take the heat for trimming or even removing the wisteria, which I'm told has been a problem in the past? Not that the board should take any heat for a plan approved by members. It's just that I know the complaints will be directed that way.
If this is viable, I suggest that a couple of the new directors-at-large be appointed to start soliciting plans and recruit some of the members that have shown interest to get this done.
The complaint I heard today was that nothing ever gets done. People forget that the board members have secret identities and real lives that take precedence over club duties. But there should be a way to get things moving. Remember the replacement shrubs for the fence? If we're going to do this, let's have it done before summer.
Jim and all,
I think that's about all you're going to get on the forum as far as numbers go. There's around 121 members of the forum but not all of those are members (some posters are from other clubs and register to sell something or just post). And if you look at the percentage that actually use the forum, the number looks about right.
I'm all for it and will submit and help draft any proposal that's serious.
Frankly, I like the enclosing the space between the storage bins as a first step. I think it has the largest bang for the buck, but is likely the most expensive idea. What I like about it is that it's already taking two other structures (non-permanent) into consideration and leveraging them. If there's a big concern about the structure being "permitted", I think it's easy to consider it an improvement on our "shed", and does not require a permit to improve an existing temporary structure.
Not being a tree hugger, I have little concern about the wisteria. I am confident in "mother-nature" and her growing ability (matter of fact it will likely help, although I have no real experience here). When it comes to the gazebo, at a minimum I think a concrete slab should replace the stones, although I haven't heard any cons other than the scope of the project is larger.
Since we are "improving" the LZ maybe we should include "washable cushions" for the picnic tables (included in the project).
Last edited by Chip on Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For anyone not familiar with the acronym, "RFP" stands for "request for proposal." I think that Jeff wants them in written form since the forum posting in the action items is locked: you cannot reply there.
I will ask my neighbor about concrete; he's a general contractor but specializes in masonry, does great work and is reasonable. It's a start.
I also suggest that any proposal to enclose the storage bin area be submitted separately from one to upgrade the gazebo. They should be separate projects.
And Jeff, find out what happened to the bushes-replacement project at that meeting, too.
And Jeff, now that you're on the BOD, will we finally see meeting minutes posted in their respective section?
Basically the request for proposal should outline the following:
What we're proposing to the board (upgrade, repair of the gazebo or enclosing the space between the storage bins)?
Why Now?
What we hope to achieve (what's in it for the club?).
Basic costs (materials and labor cost).
Oh.. and a basic time line.
I will assist with the drafting and submission.
JT wrote:And Jeff, now that you're on the BOD, will we finally see meeting minutes posted in their respective section?
It's always been my intention for the board to provide the minutes on this forum and the reason the minutes section has been here from the day I started managing the forum. I will do my best to get them up there (minus any executive stuff, you know the contracts and disciplinary stuff).
JT wrote:I will ask my neighbor about concrete; he's a general contractor but specializes in masonry, does great work and is reasonable. It's a start.
I suppose the quote should include 2 types, what it would cost to pour a slab around the existing structure and one that would have us reconstructing the entire gazebo, what do you think?
JT wrote:And Jeff, find out what happened to the bushes-replacement project at that meeting, too.
I'll check on it and report in the meeting minutes (but this does not mean I want to be the secretary for the club).
I think that there is no point to asking about a pour around the existing timbers. They are in the ground and may be rotting anyway. I don't know if redwood was used but even that can rot in time. It would be very difficult to replace them if concrete were around them. It is also better to place the stirrups that hold the uprights in the fresh pour.
Maybe I'm not getting what you mean by "around."
If we are going to pour a slab, I think we are doing entirely new construction. If we're not, maybe we should look into pavers or rectangular stepping stones to replace the 2" gravel and mud.
I'd like to see a concrete slab under the gazebo (keeps down on dirt and dust).
By the way, how much $ is the association going to buy me out for if a new gazebo is built. You know...I have a business going on, on top the gazebo. (For those of you who don't know what I am talking about, come visit awhile.)
