Flying Kagel with helicopter

Please tell what happened and how it might have been avoided. Names should be ommitted. This forum should help others learn from mistakes that caused or nearly caused a mishap.
Post Reply
User avatar
Vrezh
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:52 pm

Flying Kagel with helicopter

Post by Vrezh »

Monday, January 30.
My story:
Several gliders were set up and ready to go and couple of them were already flying. The air was so hazy I could barely see the LZ, let alone gliders in the air. A helicopter approached from SE and circled above launch about 200' up. A pilot waved from the window, we waved back. He landed on the saddle, SW of donut, came up and talked to old timers. An old friend, ex hang pilot. I don't know him. He took off and flew away(?) We got back to our flying. It was lite, all about staying up, mostly by staying close to the mountain. The helicopter appeared again, zigging and zagging across the ridge. Finally disappeared (?). Fast forward... I am setting up my approach, I see a single surface glider over the wash. I hang around in the 0 sink, to give him a chance to land first. He takes it and lands without delay. I am committed: downwind, base... what the f... now, the helicopter cuts right in front of me and heads to the LZ into my intended final leg pat. I do couple of quick S turns to shorten my final leg, while he lands on the SE corner of LZ. I land uneventfully in his turbulence, let myself cool down, bleed off the steam and talked to him.
His story:
I use to fly here long ago. I know what I am doing. I see you circling at the N end of the wash, I thought you will get up and go back...
No apologies, no word of understanding.
Last edited by Vrezh on Sun May 14, 2006 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Glenn
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:02 pm
Location: Westchester, CA

Post by Glenn »

That sounds pretty dangerous. I guess some people don't realize we have no option of a go around on an unpowered wing. So first he landed on the prime flying area over the spine of kagel and then in the LZ? Does this mean I can land on the north LAX runway? I could walk home from there. Last week I was 1000 ft above Kagel launch when a small twin engine prop flew below me at about 300 ft over launch with pilots waiting to launch and many of us in the air nearby. Keep your eyes open SHGA babies.
Flyyyyy
User avatar
Christian
Posts: 238
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:32 am
Location: Pacific Palisades

Post by Christian »

Did you get his tail number? Was it an R-22? I'd be deeply concerned he'll do that sort of thing again, since he doesnt have any 'real idea what he did. I'd inform the FAA in an instant.

Helicopter pilots are responsible for their own rotor wash. Several HG pilots have been killed by rotor wash, including a Wills son. We cannot coexist with rotor wash. The R-22 I used to fly in (as passenger) was completely destroyed when a rental pilot descended in his own rotor wash.

The notion of a helicopter pilot flying among hang gliders, landing at an active hang gliding launch (which is marked on the official sectional chart) and overflying a hang glider landing zone, would astonish any helicopter CFI or FAA official.
User avatar
Glenn
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:02 pm
Location: Westchester, CA

Post by Glenn »

The craft I was describing over launch was a fixed wing twin engine aircraft but it was very close and flew right over launching pilots and below me. A little freaky.
Flyyyyy
User avatar
Christian
Posts: 238
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:32 am
Location: Pacific Palisades

Post by Christian »

Fixed wing is a little different. I figure the airplanes around Kagel are generally within their rights, and anyhow they have the right of way. I flew out of Burbank for five years, and seveal times encounted hang gliders at 5,000-6,000 feet over Kagel, which seems pretty high to a pilot grinding up from lower down. We were pretty easy to see, though, especially when turning. It's just that you don;t expect to see a glider higher than you are.

Approaching Burbank from the desert (right over Kagel), after you clear the mountains ATC asks you to "maintain 3,000 until established on final." Burbank runway is about 775 MSL and Whiteman about 1,000. So to a power pilot, you are being asked to stay "high" (probably for noise abatement) But since our HG launch is at 3500, the airplanes look low and in our face and under us half the time. Which they are.

The regs are some help in seeing things from the power pilot point of view. FAA enforcement actions, however, are often a big surprise (and lawyer bill) to pilots. "Reckless disregard" can override any personal interpretation.

FAR Part 91.119 states:

"Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure."
Post Reply