A thought about landings

Please tell what happened and how it might have been avoided. Names should be ommitted. This forum should help others learn from mistakes that caused or nearly caused a mishap.
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Ken Andrews
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A thought about landings

Post by Ken Andrews »

My landing this afternoon received some well-deserved criticism. After a couple three-sixties at the staging area, I started my down-wind leg at about the right altitude. There was lots of lift on the down-wind leg so I widened out the pattern and kept going nearly to the power poles at the corner of Santiago Estates. Not knowing quite how the LiteSpeed's glide angle fits together with the power lines, I turned to base instead of putting myself the far side of the nearly invisible wires. Encountering still more lift, I flew a long base leg until I had to turn onto final to avoid flying over the houses west of the wash. With enough weaving around, my landing on the lawn was uneventful, but there was no mistaking the topic of conversation among the peanut gallery as I parked my glider. They report that I actually gained altitude on the downwind leg, and while I wasn't watching my altimeter, I'm sure they're right.

What would have been the right response when encountering extended lift during a landing approach? On an introductory or intermediate glider, one can usually dive to convert the unwanted altitude into speed, which is dissipated by drag until one is back on course. On a topless glider, one can still dive to turn altitude into speed, but without the drag, the pilot is simply stuck with too much speed or too much altitude.

A better idea would probably have been to cross the power lines. If I knew my glider better, I think it would be clear that the wires pose no threat. Joe Greblo suggests that an even better idea would have been a "do-over". When it became clear that I was climbing on the down-wind leg, I should have quit, gone back towards the staging area, and started over. That's an obvious solution in retrospect, but it didn't occur to me at the time.

A few years ago, Hungary Joe told me that he'd watch the trees in the LZ when setting up a landing approach. If they showed a thermal breaking off, there would be turbulence in the LZ, so he'd catch the thermal, hang out for a minute, and try again.

It's easy to assume that when landing a glider, one can't do a go-around, but there are times when it's a perfectly good alternative.
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stebbins
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Post by stebbins »

Thanks for posting this Ken!

One can also do some S turns on downwind. Not big ones, but fade left, then fade right, etc. Make the downwind leg 50% or more longer. Of course, in your case, if you were actually going up, a "do over" was a better option. But for less extreme cases, flying faster and "wiggling" on downwind helps too. Obviously, you don't want to do TOO much of that, or you might as well do a 360! ;-)

I once heard a comp pilot (I THINK it was Steve Moyes) talk about the fact that he often would do a circle just upwind of any LZ. If he could stay up (even a little) in that circle, he would do so, under the assumption that a thermal was going through. When he got downwind of the LZ, he'd race back upwind, do his approach, landing in the down air behind the thermal!
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Re: A thought about landings

Post by Glide Junkie »

Ken Andrews wrote:
A few years ago, Hungary Joe told me that he'd watch the trees in the LZ when setting up a landing approach. If they showed a thermal breaking off, there would be turbulence in the LZ, so he'd catch the thermal, hang out for a minute, and try again.
Ok, I had a very bad landing on Sunday too; pilot error, not having my hands low enough. I got popped up on the numbers, while I thought I was stuffing the bar, but over shot my landing as a result. My first critical uneven atmospheric landing....

Unlike Ken, I had no symptoms on my down wind leg of lift, I was coming down fine. Even until I hit the numbers, when I was on my final I was coming down as anticipated....Anyways, I am familiar with desert thermal signs on the ground and realize struggling to get down is a signal too, but how does a tree give signs of thermal activity? Is it the leaves blowing in different directions across the circumference? I am used to the flag in the north east end of the LZ blowing down, without the problems I encountered on Sunday, so what other indicators would give evidence to lift in the lz, if not encountered on downwind?

Thanks,

Heather
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Post by jsc1959 »

I use the streamers at either end of the LZ. If there's a thermal coming through alot of times they well be going in different directions. Of course this can be hard to see if your watching the #'s like your supposed to.

Jeff
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stebbins
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Post by stebbins »

This is where "situational awareness" comes in. And why folks just out of lessons need practice before landing mid-day.

The trick to keeping track of this stuff is just like driving a car. You look ahead, but you glance in the rear-view mirror. Then look ahead, then glance in the side mirror. etc.

You should be watching your numbers, of course. Where you are going is priority number 1. Angle is priority number 2. But, as you get better at doing those things, you have enough mental reserve to glance at the flags from time to time and see what is going on. Also, as you fly more and more you learn to tell from the feel of the air if something is happening. (That doesn't always work, I know, but it is information that is there if you can use it.) There is a lot going on during landing. And you MUST NOT take your attention off of your approach. But you can take a glance at the streamers/flags/leaves as you go. If you can't manage that yet, perhaps landing mid-day isn't for you until you get more practice. The good part is that to get practice, you get to FLY! Fly a lot, land a lot. That solves many many problems (not all.)
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Christian
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Post by Christian »

Joe Greblo gave me the same do-over advice once, when I was at the opposit pole of Ken's high experience and fast glider.

On a Falcon, I had run a downwind leg in thermals, failed to descend, continued on, and landed very long. Never mind that I had 20 hours and a forgiving glider--it was a very disconcerting experience.

Greblo said, if lifted on the downwind, turn back and start over. Thermal back up to the mountain if you can. If you cant descend, do not continue in the pattern.

I argued that where there's lift there's bound to be sink--so I had continued on, expecting sink.

He said: If you know for sure what's coming, you're smarter than me.

I argued that, in turning back, I could get too low.

He said: how long does it take to turn 180 degrees? Even if you hit big sink just as you're turning back to the staging point, make it a 360 and you're right back on course. You're in control, he said. On that downwind, he asked, Were you in control?

I realized I wasnt, not really. I was flying a "pattern." I had rehearsed the performance and now I was performing it. The pattern was my safety blanket and it had let me down. My next few flights were uneventful but my confidence was much reduced. I didn;t look forward to landing much at all. What had seemed so reassuring now seemed a threat--like a safety net with holes in it.

Then came a day when I was returning to land and everything was back to normal. I was relaxed again, confident, smiling on the downwind. A Falcon is really easy to dive, I had learned, and with my new Z5 I now knew how to hold the pod down with my foot like a drogue chute and descend like a stone. My perfect pattern was back. Duck soup.

Halfway down the downwind a DS glider appeared suddenly out of the ground clutter heading straight for me. He was way low, no altitude for any pattern at all, flying as fast as he could, exactly my altitude and planning to turn base leg in exactly my spot. Holy crap! My pattern was shot. I had to turn some way, but which way? We couldn;t fly the base leg windtip to wingtip. I could see his eyes and he was sweating bullets and claiming the airspace. I was a Falcon, no problem for a Falcon.

Except I was a still really just a student. As I looked around for something to do, unexpectedly a big calm set in. The DS flashed onto base as I did a 360. I was surprised to find myself entirely in control. I would let him land, and make my adjustments, as necessary, to land after. I realized that, really, I could land in several places (the wash was landable then). I understood that my training was not really for a "pattern", or any sequence of predictable events, but for being in control of any situation that came along. And what do you know! Here one was! In fact, the DS landed quite short and pulled off the runway before I made a perfectly normal setdown only somewhat shorter than my initial plan.

I had to forget what I learned to learn what I had forgotten: when something nonstandard happens, revise the plan immediately to return to a new standard.

As a new Hang 3 I was the best pilot I ever was. I had five options ready at all times. As time went on I stopped worrying about most of them. There are lots of HG styles but I always admired the way Ken flew. He was smart but aggressive and he liked to do things right. What the hell, even a hang glider's gotta admire somebody (although it doesn;t pay to tell them).

So I doubt the peanut gallery was half as interested in his landing as Ken was, or learned half as much. The lesson probably is that, for any perfectionist pilot, the more you learn the more it brings back what the instructor said that first glorious year.
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Steve90266
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Issues in the Landing environment

Post by Steve90266 »

In light of the recent fatality, I feel responsible to at least post a recent landing experience and allow other pilots to draw any useful iinformation from it that they can. I am an H2 with roughly 30 Kagel flights under my belt. In other words, a Newbie. My glider is a Falcon 3.

On a recent Kagel LZ approach at approximately 3 PM, I encountered some exceptionally bouyant air on both downwind and base. I was pulling in as hard as I could, and the glider's track seemed to be all but horizontal. As I turned to final, I realised that I was going to overshoot my numbers by a long shot, and in fact, ending up at the picnic tables looked like a possibility, at least according to my sight picture and limited experience. I fought with the glider for just a couple of seconds on final, but I was not coming down. It was at that point that I made the decision to head for the wash. I made a simple turn in that direction, and continued the approach.

The wash is a good bail out landing area, but presents the obvious hazards of boulders and rather high shrubs. On the bright side, there is a lot of soft sand if you can pick your spot. I managed to dodge the hazards and had one of the softest landings I can recall at Kagel.

I'm not suggesting we make it a habit of doing this. With more experience, I may have opted to execute a 360 on my downwind, or a variety of other "turn away" maneuvers to lose altitude. The reason I post this is that there may be a beginner out there like me who one day finds himself in a similare situation. Keep the wash in the back of your mind as a good alternative LZ. It's a bit dodgy, but it will give you plenty of time to set up and pick your spot. YMMV
Steve Murillo
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Post by stebbins »

And always remember that there are bad things to hit and terrible things to hit. You want to "trade down" to the less bad things. Hitting power line or a rock is terrible. Hitting another glider is bad. Hitting a bush is annoying. You get the idea.

Never give up. Always fly the glider. Keep thinking. Keep flying. Have a backup plan. Look ahead. And when impact is inevitable, minimize the damage. Decide to tuck, or decide to hold the flare, or whatever makes sense in the circumstances. But decide it. Don't just react. The earlier you decide your options the better.

Please fly safely, my friends.
Fly High; Fly Far; Fly Safe -- George
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Steve90266
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Thanks, George

Post by Steve90266 »

Thanks, George. I appreciate your mentorship.
Steve Murillo
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