question.....

[abinder]

Oscar,

If you still have the back plate you can order a replacement from the dmv other wise they won't replace it.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/howto/htvr11.htm

True. But he still has to 'dish out' some money when it isn't his fault.


Allen

[Bob Kuczewski]

Hi Oscar,

I don't know the story behind all the license plate shennanigans, but the fact that they're playing such silly games says two things:

1. The people on one side of these issues are very immature.
2. You're not on that side!!

Take heart my friend, you stand with the better half.

Bob Kuczewski

[Bob Kuczewski]

Bob, there is no need for anyone to call Torrey to find out if you are telling the truth as you see it.

JT, that says it all right there. You want to poke at me, but when I give you a challenge to look into the facts, you can't stand up to it.

I rest my case.


For all other Sylmar pilots, the time to vote is almost over. I've worked hard to bring some key issues to light:

- More open voting by Directors
- Director visibility into the EC's meetings
- Fair representation for our clubs
- Due process to our members

If these issues didn't matter, there wouldn't have been such a firestorm raised against me. But that firestorm is slowly subsiding. At this most recent Board meeting I won a vote to support adding a new Chapter to the Torrey Pines Soaring Council. That means that over 50% of the Directors on the Board voted with me. That's a huge statement.

I also came very close to passing a few other measures. Some were lost by only one or two votes. In fact, I suspect I would have also won a vote on the Accountability Amendment (more open voting by Directors), but that issue wasn't even allowed on the floor!! It was summarily dismissed by the USHPA President without even getting a vote. If nothing else, that tells us how desperate some Board members are to maintain the status quo on the Board.

My point here is that I've been making some great progress against some pretty stiff opposition. The process for this fall's election will get under way soon, and I don't mind being replaced at the end of my term this fall. But please don't reward those who've already cost us nearly $10,000 by voting to recall me now. That will only escalate the "recall wars" and cost us more money. Please vote against the recall so I can finish my term. You'll get a chance to judge me this fall anyway.

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski

[RJM]

JT I have found the document from 2003 that gives Dave Jebb the Right to train Paragliding off Torrey. It was actually passed threw the Torrey Pines Soaring council. So again you are correct and Bob continues his bloviating. If you ever have any Questions that need a correct response, call me Robin

[dhmartens]

Oscar
There were some visiting pilots that I met on Saturday I had never seen before so your plate is likely gone. I would replace it soon. With such a cool plate you should have known you needed special bolts. We should take this time to remember the lessons of the past years where people left their Varios, Gps, Harnesses, paragliders etc in their car in plain view or an open garage and had it stolen, some may have left the sport because of it. I left my Vertex radio near a gopher hole where I lost it and now we get that annoying keying on our club frequency every hour or so.

http://www.amazon.com/Cruiser-Accessori ... B0013V8GEC

The definition of Bloviate: (use in a sentance)

The thermal bloviated up the side of the mountain.
After a period of sink, I cored a bloviating thermal up to 5200 feet.


The only things I can say about Bob K are.
1) He should be president of the USHPA
2) He should have more respect for the efforts that went into establishing the Torrey Pines site and paraglider school and to maintain its long term profitability as a goal.
3) If Bob K is reelected no one should take it personally. It is because his presence is necessary to keep the pressure on and maintain balance. If Bob goes away now will things remain the same at Torrey or will they revert back? Or get worse than before?
4) I like Bob's ability to attack on 5 fronts at one time. I am glad he is on my side and not against me.
I like Bill Helliwell's resume and list of flying sites east of San Diego that he helps fly and maintain. What I didn't like was the cop out response he wrote about changing Torry.
http://web.me.com/billhelliwell/Site/Bl ... orrey.html

The bottom line on high hour Hang 3s flying Torrey should be based on Science.
Track the gps logs of a dozen or so Guinea pigs over 2 years. Try to fine tune limits based on high traffic, wing loading, and wind conditions etc.

[JT]

Bob,
In case you didn't read the entire message, I gave you the "win" on whether PGs make their first solos from Torrey. No argument. However, your selection of "sound bites" reinforces my point about misdirection. I guess if you ignore the remainder of the message. everyone else will, too. BTW, when are you bringing equity to PG pilots at Kagel?

Doug,
It is heartening to witness the caliber of supporters Bob garners with his approach. Keep up the good work.

[OSCAR]

[JT]

Oscar,
Ditto.
Hey, Bob! Can you say,
"Yada
Yada
Yada
Yada
yada

Edited by moderator in interest of making the forum more readible. But we get the point

[Bob Kuczewski]

JT I have found the document from 2003 that gives Dave Jebb the Right to train Paragliding off Torrey. It was actually passed threw the Torrey Pines Soaring council. So again you are correct and Bob continues his bloviating. If you ever have any Questions that need a correct response, call me Robin

That may have been the end of the Soaring Council!! I heard that David Jebb worked to fill it with his buddies just as he did when I "revived" the Soaring Council in 2007. Does anyone remember the SDHGPA "picking" Gabe Jebb as their representative to the Council in 2007 when Jebb flooded the meeting with his students, former students, and instructors? They had a show of hands vote with David Jebb, Maya Jebb, Gabe Jebb, and most of their staff there to pressure people.

Furthermore Robin, I thought that the Torrey Pines Soaring Council didn't have any influence over the site. So why would that document be "passed threw" the Soaring Council? Was that the mechanism that the City used to ensure that all user groups had a say at the Gliderport? If so, then that's even more reason to add the Hawks since we represent a viewpoint that's not being currently represented. Thanks for helping with that argument Robin!!

JT, the facts matter. I was right about pilots making their first flights at Torrey. That goes to credibility. I've been flying at Torrey fairly regularly since 2005, and I know what's going on there. You don't. You should realize you're on thin ice when you attack someone in their own area of expertise. That would be like me trying to tell the Sylmar club how to run Kagel. Sure I've flown there a fair amount, but I don't know that site like the locals do. I would be out of line to presume to know how it should be operated.

I've lived through David Jebb at Torrey. I've seen Robin bullying people just like Jebb did. That's why Robin got along with Jebb all those years. Do you think it was a coincidence that Jebb turned the place over to Robin?

I've also seen how Robin has treated David Beardslee. Now Beardslee is no saint, but he hasn't deserved what he's gotten from Robin. Imagine Robin trying to charge Beardslee $100 for each tandem passenger that Dave brought to the site. Robin? Do you have any comments on that?

And what about Bill? If Bill had such a fire in his belly to be a Regional Director, don't you think he should have the decency to come to these forums and lay out his views and answer questions? Where's he? And where was he during all the Jebb years? He was a board member on the SDHGPA for most of that time and he didn't lift a finger to fix the problems at Torrey.

The bottom line is that I went in to clean up a mess that hadn't been fixed by Brad Hall, or Robin Marien, or Bill Helliwell, or USHPA, or the SDHGPA. I've taken the heat and I've stood up to the test. We're at the turning point now, and it's not the time to quit. I ask for everyone to vote against the recall and to vote for me on the ballot.

Thanks.

[JT]

Plan ahead for the worst. You'll enjoy life more.

[RJM]

Actually Bob the document is from 2001 that gives Air California Adventure exclusive rights to teach paragliding at Torrey. The letter was from the City of San Diego giving the go ahead to teach. Also a copy of the letter was sent through the soaring council,after all they are an advisory board making recommendations to the city! Bullying people Bob,? you mean doing my job don't you? As for Dave Beardsly you got that all wrong as usual. Here you go Bob since your a certified expert on Torrey,here's the letter i wrote Dave B the day after police told him his actions were e legal. I hope this clarifies this so called bullying incident for you. David: I sincerely regret that we had a disagreement on Sunday, June 21, 2009, at the torrey pines gliderport, with respect to your desire to fly as many as six tandems at the park. I am writing this letter to clarify the position of ACA, inc , and hopefully to help avoid such difficult issues in the future.

First, let me assure you that I personally am pleased to have you fly your hangglider at TPGP provided you are currently USHPA certified and have signed all required liability waivers-my actions today were in no way directed toward you personally. It has long been my stated intention to do my best to ensure a safe and fun soaring and aviation experience to as many people as possible at the gliderport:all types of pilots ( hang, para, RC, sailplane ), and non-pilots from the general public,alike. as long as the highest standard of safety is maintained, and all laws and regulations imposed by the City and other authorities are observed, I believe it is in the best interests of the entire community that as many people experience our wonderful sport.

But it is exactly this point of safety and compliance with the law that compelled me to act as I did. I assure you, I had no choice. You may be aware, but the San Diego City Ordinance makes it illegal to fly a hang glider on, or from, any city park or beach without a permit. But even more relevant, it is illegal to soliucit or operate any buisness or trade from a city park or beach property without written permission of the City. The Torrey Pines Gliderport is a City Park, and so these laws apply. ACA, inc is the only entity with written permission to fly and operate a business from this park. The City ordinance specifically states:

San Diego Municipal Code 63.0102. Use of Puplic Park and Beaches (b) It is unlawful for any person within any public park or plaza or public beach or beach areas within the City of San Diego to do any of the acts enumerated in ( this section)

(14) Solicitation. It is unlawful to practice, carry on. conduct, or solicit for any trade, occupation , business or profession without the written consent of the City Manager.

Moreover, the contract with the City grants ACA the exclusive right to operate a business at the at Torrey Pines City Park (i.e., the Gliderport) also places heavy duties on me- despite what's been said by some in our flying community, ( it is Not free, nor granted without some serious burdens!) For example, ACA, inc has thelegal duty to " deligently pursue" the terms and purposes in the City lease. and failure " shall be grounds for termination." ( Section 7.2 of our lease with the CITY.) Thus, I am under a legal duty not to violate the law by allowing an illegal buisness to operate in the park, unless it is under the auspices of the City lease granted to ACA,inc.

And lest you think that it would be a good thing to have the lease terminated so others can "move in" please be aware that it would still be illegal for ANYONE to operate a business in the park without express City approval( in addition, and separate to,the fact that the permit required to fly any type of soaring aircraft from a City Park or beach would be lost). I believe that all of us in the soaring community are together in desiring the City to complete its Park Planning Board activities, and normalize soaring flight at the Gliderport. But in the meantime, it is all too likely that all flight activities could be ENTIRELY PROHIBITED if we are not careful-this is what I'm looking for, and I ask your help and cooperation in this!

Incidentally, you many not know the history of why the City passed ordinances banning soaring aviation (and businesses) in City parks and beaches without written permission, and then granted an exclusive license to a single concessionaire at the Gliderport. In 1979 the City was concerned that multiple soaring clubs, each with its own voluntary flight director, was not adequate to ensure coordination and safety at the site even with the help of the new Soaring Council. It just wasn't working. For this reason a single point of contact - and responsibility - was established by the City: the Flight Director/Concession. And despite was has been said, Air California Adventure is obligated to pay for the privilege operating at the Gliderport-not the least of which is the obligation to maintain a certain staffing level, pay for insurance, legally indemnify the City, pay for toilets and grounds maintenance, and in some parts of operation even pay the City a percentage of gross revenue! Operating this business is as much a duty as a privilege, and exists on a razor-thin margin.

With the goal of not losing this great flying site for all of us, I hope to come to an amicable understanding with you. I am willing to allow occasional hang glider or paraglider tandem flights at the gliderport by individuals who are not contractors of ACA, Inc - if conducted for no profit, and provided all waivers and insurance requirements are signed and fulfilled, and if a reasonable use-fee is paid to ACA, Inc. I invite you to come speak with me, to see if we can clarify what exactly this would mean. I believe such would not be an illegal business at the Park, and also would not undercut my ability to continue to keep this site open for all of us. But as you now realize, I am obligated to prevent independent business activities from operating at the Gliderport. Further, I have a lease that provides ACA, Inc the exclusive right to conduct flight operations at the park, in exchange for the large sums of money I must pay (not to mention the effort). I hope you understand, and we can reach a friendly resolution in this matter and avoid a repeat of Sunday's dispute.

Well Bob we know you live for an audience through your misrepresentations of the facts so have at it . Time will prove me or you right or wrong as will a few more weeks!? [/b]

[AlC]

Robin:

First time I'd seen this letter and it seems to lay out a policy for Tandems from non-Torrey staff. If I can condense and paraphrase a bit:

Background:

- ACA holds the lease/concession and is responsible to the city and for meeting the financial obligations of the lease, including the insurance requirements.

Policy:

- Non-Torrey tandem rated pilots wishing to conduct a business-related training flight (often called a tandem) from the Torrey Pines Glider Port under ACA's lease/concession must pay a fee of X to the concessionaire. (Presumable this would make them an agent of ACA for the purposes of the city lease and insurance).

- Non-Torrey tandem rated pilots may otherwise not conduct business-related training flights from the Torrey Pines Glider Port as this would be in violation of city policy and bylaw requirements.

-----------------------------------------

Is that about right?

Questions?

1/ Is the policy consistently applied (i.e., it would be the same for Joe G. or Rob McK as it was for Dave)?

2/ Is the policy consistently applied to both paraglider and hang glider tandems?

3/ Do non-fee tandems (taking your SO, friend, another pilot if you're a T1 racking up hours for your T2, etc.) fall under the general day use category?

Thank you for posting Robin. Your recent posts have clarified a lot and presented a different side to the story of the events at TPGP.

- Alan

[Bob Kuczewski]

Robin,

I've captured your speech below for posterity. It would be a fine speech except you left out the part where you were going to let David Beardslee fly all 6 of those tandems ... as long as he paid you $100 each!

You may have forgotten that he called me up that morning to tell me about your outrageous tandem "use fees", and that I called you myself and spoke with you personally on the phone. You told me that he had to pay $100 per tandem. I told you the lease said $25 for an "outside tandem fee" and you started into your long list of expenses and reasons why you needed to charge $100 (including a comment that you didn't want Beardslee making more money than your own instructors). You go on and on about your rights under the lease, but you fail to bring up the "outside tandem fee" which would presumably be for commercial tandems not originating from your site. Ooops, I guess you forgot that one.

Now, just so everyone knows the truth, did you (or did you not) try to charge David Beardslee $100 for every one of those 6 tandem
flights? And easy "yes" or "no" would save you a lot of typing.

Waiting for an answer...
Bob Kuczewski

P.S. Now you know why David Jebb rarely ventured into these public forums where people could ask real questions and expect real
answers.

Actually Bob the document is from 2001 that gives Air California Adventure exclusive rights to teach paragliding at Torrey. The letter was from the City of San Diego giving the go ahead to teach. Also a copy of the letter was sent through the soaring council,after all they are an advisory board making recommendations to the city! Bullying people Bob,? you mean doing my job don't you? As for Dave Beardsly you got that all wrong as usual. Here you go Bob since your a certified expert on Torrey,here's the letter i wrote Dave B the day after police told him his actions were e legal. I hope this clarifies this so called bullying incident for you. David: I sincerely regret that we had a disagreement on Sunday, June 21, 2009, at the torrey pines gliderport, with respect to your desire to fly as many as six tandems at the park. I am writing this letter to clarify the position of ACA, inc , and hopefully to help avoid such difficult issues in the future.

First, let me assure you that I personally am pleased to have you fly your hangglider at TPGP provided you are currently USHPA certified and have signed all required liability waivers-my actions today were in no way directed toward you personally. It has long been my stated intention to do my best to ensure a safe and fun soaring and aviation experience to as many people as possible at the gliderport:all types of pilots ( hang, para, RC, sailplane ), and non-pilots from the general public,alike. as long as the highest standard of safety is maintained, and all laws and regulations imposed by the City and other authorities are observed, I believe it is in the best interests of the entire community that as many people experience our wonderful sport.

But it is exactly this point of safety and compliance with the law that compelled me to act as I did. I assure you, I had no choice. You may be aware, but the San Diego City Ordinance makes it illegal to fly a hang glider on, or from, any city park or beach without a permit. But even more relevant, it is illegal to soliucit or operate any buisness or trade from a city park or beach property without written permission of the City. The Torrey Pines Gliderport is a City Park, and so these laws apply. ACA, inc is the only entity with written permission to fly and operate a business from this park. The City ordinance specifically states:

San Diego Municipal Code 63.0102. Use of Puplic Park and Beaches (b) It is unlawful for any person within any public park or plaza or public beach or beach areas within the City of San Diego to do any of the acts enumerated in ( this section)

(14) Solicitation. It is unlawful to practice, carry on. conduct, or solicit for any trade, occupation , business or profession without the written consent of the City Manager.

Moreover, the contract with the City grants ACA the exclusive right to operate a business at the at Torrey Pines City Park (i.e., the Gliderport) also places heavy duties on me- despite what's been said by some in our flying community, ( it is Not free, nor granted without some serious burdens!) For example, ACA, inc has thelegal duty to " deligently pursue" the terms and purposes in the City lease. and failure " shall be grounds for termination." ( Section 7.2 of our lease with the CITY.) Thus, I am under a legal duty not to violate the law by allowing an illegal buisness to operate in the park, unless it is under the auspices of the City lease granted to ACA,inc.

And lest you think that it would be a good thing to have the lease terminated so others can "move in" please be aware that it would still be illegal for ANYONE to operate a business in the park without express City approval( in addition, and separate to,the fact that the permit required to fly any type of soaring aircraft from a City Park or beach would be lost). I believe that all of us in the soaring community are together in desiring the City to complete its Park Planning Board activities, and normalize soaring flight at the Gliderport. But in the meantime, it is all too likely that all flight activities could be ENTIRELY PROHIBITED if we are not careful-this is what I'm looking for, and I ask your help and cooperation in this!

Incidentally, you many not know the history of why the City passed ordinances banning soaring aviation (and businesses) in City parks and beaches without written permission, and then granted an exclusive license to a single concessionaire at the Gliderport. In 1979 the City was concerned that multiple soaring clubs, each with its own voluntary flight director, was not adequate to ensure coordination and safety at the site even with the help of the new Soaring Council. It just wasn't working. For this reason a single point of contact - and responsibility - was established by the City: the Flight Director/Concession. And despite was has been said, Air California Adventure is obligated to pay for the privilege operating at the Gliderport-not the least of which is the obligation to maintain a certain staffing level, pay for insurance, legally indemnify the City, pay for toilets and grounds maintenance, and in some parts of operation even pay the City a percentage of gross revenue! Operating this business is as much a duty as a privilege, and exists on a razor-thin margin.

With the goal of not losing this great flying site for all of us, I hope to come to an amicable understanding with you. I am willing to allow occasional hang glider or paraglider tandem flights at the gliderport by individuals who are not contractors of ACA, Inc - if conducted for no profit, and provided all waivers and insurance requirements are signed and fulfilled, and if a reasonable use-fee is paid to ACA, Inc. I invite you to come speak with me, to see if we can clarify what exactly this would mean. I believe such would not be an illegal business at the Park, and also would not undercut my ability to continue to keep this site open for all of us. But as you now realize, I am obligated to prevent independent business activities from operating at the Gliderport. Further, I have a lease that provides ACA, Inc the exclusive right to conduct flight operations at the park, in exchange for the large sums of money I must pay (not to mention the effort). I hope you understand, and we can reach a friendly resolution in this matter and avoid a repeat of Sunday's dispute.

Well Bob we know you live for an audience through your misrepresentations of the facts so have at it . Time will prove me or you right or wrong as will a few more weeks!? [/b]

[Bob Kuczewski]

Hi Alan,

I hope Robin will answer your good questions, but let me give you what I know in the mean time ...

- Non-Torrey tandem rated pilots wishing to conduct a business-related training flight (often called a tandem) from the Torrey Pines Glider Port under ACA's lease/concession must pay a fee of X to the concessionaire. (Presumable this would make them an agent of ACA for the purposes of the city lease and insurance).

Unless there's a new lease that Robin's not sharing (which wouldn't surprise me) the most current version of the lease that I have states:

10.3 Schedule of Rates and Charges
- User rate is $5.00 per day.
- Torrey Pines Gulls member rate is $3.00 per day.
- Quarterly rate is $35 for 90 days.
- Semi Annual rate is $60 for 180 days.
- Annual rate is $100 for 365 days.
- Outside Tandem Fee is $25.00 per day per person, plus the daily $5.00 use fee.
- Tandem fee with a Torrey Pines instructor is $125.00.
- Instructional Fee is $125.00 per day.

If Robin has a more recent copy of the lease, I'd appreciate seeing it. The line that states "Outside Tandem Fee" is poorly written, but I think it is intended to mean commercial tandems since there should be no reason to have to pay $25 just to fly a tandem.

- Non-Torrey tandem rated pilots may otherwise not conduct business-related training flights from the Torrey Pines Glider Port as this would be in violation of city policy and bylaw requirements.

Again, I think the "Outside Tandem Fee" implies that this would be permitted as a condition of ACA holding the lease. I'll bet they try to get that changed if they renegotiate. That will tell us a lot about what a nice guy Robin is.

1/ Is the policy consistently applied (i.e., it would be the same for Joe G. or Rob McK as it was for Dave)?

The fact that Robin arbitrarily tried to charge Dave Beardslee $100 is proof that it's not consistently applied. I suspect he also lets some of his buddies do commercial tandems for free or a reduced fee. That helps keep them on the "team".

2/ Is the policy consistently applied to both paraglider and hang glider tandems?

I suspect it's more of an "in crowd" / "out crowd" situation. Right now, they know there are lots of people watching what they're doing, so I'd guess they're more fair. But that's why we need to establish a real citizen's oversight body. That's the one thing that Robin is resisting the most.

3/ Do non-fee tandems (taking your SO, friend, another pilot if you're a T1 racking up hours for your T2, etc.) fall under the general day use category?

Again, this may depend on your "in crowd" / "out crowd" status. But I can tell you that during our Torrey Hawks Second Sundays, Robin has let David Beardslee fly our members and their family and friends without charging. I don't know if that's an official policy or if it's just another situation where it will be permitted until it's not. Again, having a good solid oversight organization (Soaring Council or Advisory Board) would help.

The Torrey Hawks have certainly turned up the visibility on these issues, and we welcome new members. Despite the ongoing problems, I feel that Torrey Pines is better for hang gliding today than it has been in the last 5 years. I can only credit that to the many members who've joined the Hawks and shown their support for our club. Thanks to all the Sylmar Hawks!!

[RJM]

Thanks for the questions. The short answer is that I absolutely apply the same policy to paragliders and hang gliders, with respect to Tandems.

My policy is as follows: If someone wants to fly a tandem at the gliderport, they must, of course, have the proper current USHPA certification. As I'm sure you know, for T-1 and T-2 (or T-3), the pilot is certificated to fly other USHPA rated pilots, or USHPA associate members respectively. In those cases, I consistently apply no more than the standard tandem fee, of $35.

But for T-3 pilots who seek to give instruction (for money or otherwise) to non-rated individuals as passengers/students (note: per FAA rules, such tandems are authorized under an exemption to FAR part 103 for instruction only), that is a different matter. Its a commercial business, and per the terms of my lease, and also under City ordinance, the only one authorized to do such commercial business at the gliderport is Air California Adventure. I have tried to be accommodating in the past, and allow some people to work here as independent contractors (which is what I tried to explain to Dave B., by the way). I offered Dave the same terms I offer all of my employee instructors on the day he came with six commercial tandems, and he refused to accept those terms and became belligerent.

I do reserve the right to refuse flight privileges to anyone, however, in order to meet my obligations as Flight Director. I realize that some find the concept of anyone being held responsible for ensuring safety is a bad idea (unless its them, perhaps) but I do take this responsibility seriously. I have also heard some people say that one person should never have the ability to revoke flight privileges at a site, but I disagree -- safety by committee is no safety at all. Having said that, I have publicly stated that flight privileges will only be revoked for repeated gross violations of rules, or causing a safety hazard. Also, to be clear, revoking flight privileges is not the same as denying access to the public parts of the city park here -- all members of the public are always welcome to visit -- its only the flight park operations and the leasehold where I have this safety responsibility.

To quote a famous saying (possibly Mark Twain): If you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. If you have the law on your side, argue the law. If you have neither, holler!

[Bob Kuczewski]

Robin,

First, I don't believe you should be charging $35 for non-commercial tandems. You are effectively saying that two pilots could individually fly (with two gliders) for $7.50 each, but if they decided to fly together on the same glider you would suddenly charge them an additional $35 for taking up half the airspace!?! Does that make any sense at all?

Second, the lease says:

"Outside Tandem Fee is $25.00 per day per person, plus the daily $5.00 use fee."

That was clearly added as a barrier to competition for tandem business. And as such, that's just the way it is, and competitors have to pay an extra fee to use your site. But you can't arbitrarily raise that from $25 to $100 per flight just because you don't like someone!

Now you dodged my question. Did you try to charge David Beardslee $100 per flight or not? This is a simple question, and if you don't answer everyone will know the answer anyway. So you might as well come clean and give us your side of the story.

Thanks in advance.

[OSCAR]

Hi all :
All the license plate stealing shenanigans were a spoof on Barton Davidson He had nothing to do with the disappearance of the HANG IV plate from my truck,but it sure made him sweat a little .It was all done in fun thanks to all whom participated in the spoof.
Oscar

[RJM]

Bob, perhaps it's your reading comprehension is not up to par? How many different ways would you like me to answer the same question? I really do not care what your opinion is on any issue pertaining to Torrey . Airspace Bob ?, has nothing to do with outside tandems, I would say insurance requirements and clauses in the lease do. When Dave B came to Torrey telling me what he was going to do it if I liked it or not,(six tandems) I called the police. Well guess who was right Bob? $100 or $1000 it wasn't going to happen anyways, end of story. So as usual your misrepresentation of the facts are skewed to your liking as always.Here is one of my favorite posts on all the forums. I find it so informational as it pertains to you Bob.

You're right Bob, you aren't responsible for anything except being right all the time. It must be a Guiness World record for rightness. You are omniscient; you can see through walls in into the minds of those insidious plotters. Along with you're other proposals, I'm ready to support a motion to close Torrey for your use only. I want you at the committee sessions for our U.S. Senators and Congressmen. I want you to sit at Obama's right hand. How could anything be done without your sage advice and consent? God knows, literally, that you know best. I'm not sure that God even knows how right you are. That's it; you need access to God's private sessions. If the executve committee can't keep you out, how can anyone else?

As my friend says, they took away your toy so, you have a right to throw a tantrum.

I give up, you are going to go your own way no matter how self-destructive or disruptive to a useful entity. You will continue to alienate anyone that had any notion of supporting you (as I did), if they question any of your incesant diatribe.

You win, post what you will. Threaten whoever you want. Fill this forum with all the unreasonable, one-sided, tunnel-vision rhetoric you can take the time to write. Spend your fortune on lawyers to defend your "right" to go anywhere you like. Continue your character assassinations.

And know that I believe you are a much smaller person than I thought before the election. But don't worry, you dont' care what I think.

You're right.

Almost forgot again, Oh Great Five-Star General and President-for-Life: please remove my name from the roll of Torrey Hawks; number 201 has checked out, permanently. I have no reason to have any further communications from you or your club, that is, you. May the next owner of that spot serve you more effectively.

For anyone in the SHGA, I strongly suggest that you ask anyone other than Bob, especially Bob K., how to go about approaching a date at Torrey. You don't want to end up getting kicked out for no good reason (his) and going through the same mess he has. I'm told it isn't really that bad. You just have to follow the rules... maybe a bit more than we do at Kagel. With all the PGs in the air, it's probably a good idea.

For those of you who continue to support Bob, he's got a good heart. Please talk to him and ask him to continue his tilt at windmills but to lose the lance. Smack him on the side of the head and ask him to stop attacking anyone who doesn't jump to his side immediately. Teach him compromise; it means both sides are unhappy but they both get a little bit of what they want. Good luck to you all and come fly with us. We need the money.

[barton]

edited 6.2018

[Bob Kuczewski]

Bob, perhaps it's your reading comprehension is not up to par? How many different ways would you like me to answer the same question?

One way ... honestly.

Did you try to charge David Beardslee $100 for each of his tandems? Yes or no?

And if he had paid you the $600 you were demanding (for him to fly his 6 tandem students) would you have still called the police or not?