Access to Launch During Forest Service Closure
Moderator: Chip
Lukens launch
Not much "homework" needed to describe the condition at Mt Lukens since I have ridden to the top many times as well as flying there from Kagel even more times. The access road is located behind a fire station about 5 miles up Angeles Crest Hwy. There is a large locked gate. The road is in good condition for any high clearance vehicle - 4WD is not necessary. The Big-T wash is the only viable LZ and it is easily makable, even with a falcon, although you cannot see it from launch. The launch will need one good day for bush clearing but has a good slope to it. The only thing left to do is find out how to get through the gate. Mike Hayden could probably tell us how to do it as I know he has managed tp do it in the recent past.
I am willing to pitch in
I am willing to pitch in. Would anyoue else like to help out? I think we have interest in looking at a Lukens and other alternative launches. As a hang 3, I am very interested in perserving the Kagel launch. Have we had any discussions iwth the forest service about preserving the Kagel road?
We (via the club Forest Service Committee) have indeed had discussions with the FS about preserving the road. At first they thought that the damaged section wasn't on FS land. Between Ken Andrews and Fred Weinmann, though we got enought info to convince them that it was indeed on their property. Now they feel that with their budget (meager) that this road is low priority. They pretty much said they wouldn't do anything about it. That might change, and we will try to encourage that, BUT, in my opinion it is up to us.
I agree that our first priority is making sure we can still fly Kagel. But it doesn't hurt to have a backup plan, and to have options. The road should be our highest priority (other than keeping the neighbors happy and keeping flying safe) in my opinion.
I agree that our first priority is making sure we can still fly Kagel. But it doesn't hurt to have a backup plan, and to have options. The road should be our highest priority (other than keeping the neighbors happy and keeping flying safe) in my opinion.
Fly High; Fly Far; Fly Safe -- George
Just wondering:
What are the requirements/options for re-grading ourselves? (other than costs)
Do we need a LADBS grading permit? (assuming it lies within L.A.) Or do we only need permission from FSC? Can they even give permission? Does the FSC issue their own permits via an internal Architect?
It looks as if a standard Special Use Permit will cover grading or erosion control work, provided it complies with State and Fed Regs. It also indemnifies the governing bodies from liability, which is probably the biggest barrier to doing anything. Once the paperwork is in order than the grading is just a cost factor.
Or do we just bootleg it?
The missing (fill) material from the ravine is very limiting regarding a re-grade.
(It may be that these specific issues have already been addressed
ad nauseam. If so, sorry....)
What are the requirements/options for re-grading ourselves? (other than costs)
Do we need a LADBS grading permit? (assuming it lies within L.A.) Or do we only need permission from FSC? Can they even give permission? Does the FSC issue their own permits via an internal Architect?
It looks as if a standard Special Use Permit will cover grading or erosion control work, provided it complies with State and Fed Regs. It also indemnifies the governing bodies from liability, which is probably the biggest barrier to doing anything. Once the paperwork is in order than the grading is just a cost factor.
Or do we just bootleg it?
The missing (fill) material from the ravine is very limiting regarding a re-grade.
(It may be that these specific issues have already been addressed
ad nauseam. If so, sorry....)
Yesterday I went out and surveyey 8 of the 10 sites I had found on Google Earth. It got dark and I got hungry before I had a chance at the last 2, of which I think I might be a really good one. Of the 8, there is 1 really nice LZ (Clark Magnet High School), 1 good LZ (Two Strike Park Baseball Field), and 1 good size but too many people around field (Dunsmore Park). There are also several other fields that could be used as bailouts. One of the fields I visited could be bulldozed into a great LZ. It's LA Country Dept. of Public Works property, with a wash basin on the site. There are several plateaus in a huge area, some of which could be H4 LZ's, but if we were to somehow get their permission to turn part of the area into an LZ and bulldoze it, it would be really nice... But that is kinda beside the point, let's talk about the other 3. First let me mention that during my site visits yesterday, I ran into my supervisor from work who lives right next to one of the 3 fields. He directed me to pretty much the same places I had scoped on Google Earth.
1. Clark Magnet High School - There is a huge soccer? field right next to Clark that is about the size of 4 to 6 football fields. The length is amazing. This is easily a hang 3 field, maybe a hang 2 field. There are obstacles on the sides (fence, school, etc), but it's so large that shouldn't matter. There are no lights or lightposts. It's off New York Ave. on the west side between Los Alivos and Alabama.
2. Two Strike Park - This is a baseball field with a very large outfield. They play ball here in the Spring and Fall, so we might only be able to use it in summer and winter. My supervisor lives right next to this one and said there is no one every out there on weekends in July and August. There is another long skinny field next to it, but it's surrounded by trees. It's at the end of Herrietta just east of La Crescenta.
3. The last one is the sports field at Dunsmore park. It's a good size field, but it looks like it gets pretty heavy use by people. I'm not sure what the situation is in the summer and winter, but it might be worth watching. It's on Dunsmore Ave. just north of Markridge.
There is one more very large field at an elementary school that I didn't have a chance to check out. My supervisor thought it would be really good though. It's on the south side of Orange across from El Adobe Ln.
I took pictures of all these fields but it's hard to get an idea of scale in the pictures.
What's the next step? Do we need pictures of launch?
Rob
1. Clark Magnet High School - There is a huge soccer? field right next to Clark that is about the size of 4 to 6 football fields. The length is amazing. This is easily a hang 3 field, maybe a hang 2 field. There are obstacles on the sides (fence, school, etc), but it's so large that shouldn't matter. There are no lights or lightposts. It's off New York Ave. on the west side between Los Alivos and Alabama.
2. Two Strike Park - This is a baseball field with a very large outfield. They play ball here in the Spring and Fall, so we might only be able to use it in summer and winter. My supervisor lives right next to this one and said there is no one every out there on weekends in July and August. There is another long skinny field next to it, but it's surrounded by trees. It's at the end of Herrietta just east of La Crescenta.
3. The last one is the sports field at Dunsmore park. It's a good size field, but it looks like it gets pretty heavy use by people. I'm not sure what the situation is in the summer and winter, but it might be worth watching. It's on Dunsmore Ave. just north of Markridge.
There is one more very large field at an elementary school that I didn't have a chance to check out. My supervisor thought it would be really good though. It's on the south side of Orange across from El Adobe Ln.
I took pictures of all these fields but it's hard to get an idea of scale in the pictures.
What's the next step? Do we need pictures of launch?
Rob
H4
Greblo and I drove around to the LZ's yesterday. The schools and parks don't look that good to Greblo. We did find 2 debris/flood basin areas at the base of Lukens that would be reasonable bailout LZ's. We also walked the Big T LZ. Greblo believes this would be a hang 3 or hang 2 with signoff LZ (like Kagel). George and I figured it would be a between 5/1 to 6/1 glide depending on how far you had to go out in front of Little Lukens to get to Big T. So we have identified a good LZ and a couple bailout LZ's right next to each other. The next step is surveying what work has to be done with launch. We can either bike/walk up there, or ask the forest service for permission to drive up once to check it out. Will there be a meeting with the forest service in the next 2-3 weeks? If the answer is no, who is willing to get up there to take pictures of the launch?
H4