Bad Flying and some good luck at Kagel
Bad Flying and some good luck at Kagel
I have a video I'm trying to post of me and Corey striking wings in front of the ridge at Kagel on Wednesday. I'd like to post it here in case it could be helpful. Stop in and lend a hand if it's convenient.
The mid air occurred while we were both flying straight for a considerable time. We both flew down and landed without issues. Corey's Falcon was unscratched and my Sport 2 bent and creased the aft leading edge.
Obviously neither of us were looking around well enough. I'm accepting the lion's share of the blame because I'm the most experienced pilot that should have been the most vigilant, and was clearly not paying proper attention.
Lessons learned: Only 4 gliders in the sky doesn't mean pilots can't get too close. Don't divert attention to camera's or other issues "inside the control bar". Look for eye contact of any pilot near you. No eye contact, steer clear.
The mid air occurred while we were both flying straight for a considerable time. We both flew down and landed without issues. Corey's Falcon was unscratched and my Sport 2 bent and creased the aft leading edge.
Obviously neither of us were looking around well enough. I'm accepting the lion's share of the blame because I'm the most experienced pilot that should have been the most vigilant, and was clearly not paying proper attention.
Lessons learned: Only 4 gliders in the sky doesn't mean pilots can't get too close. Don't divert attention to camera's or other issues "inside the control bar". Look for eye contact of any pilot near you. No eye contact, steer clear.
Safety is a book, not a word
Michael Robertson
Michael Robertson
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPicLgg72TI[/youtube]
- Steve90266
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:05 pm
- Location: Manhattan Beach
- Contact:
Bad Flying and some good luck
As Safety Director I was able to interview both pilots involved in the mishap.
Pilot A was an experienced H-5 with multiple ratings, flying a Sport 2 135. Pilot B, seen flying up the ridge in the video, is a new H-2. flying a Falcon 2 195.
Pilot A, who has his camera mounted on his wing and who is the source of this video, stated that he may have been somewhat distracted with his cameras at the time of the incident. In the video, it appears that although he did clear his right turn, it appears that he did not clear back to the left when he went wings level.
Pilot B is seen in the upper left corner of the video flying directly at Pilot A with wings level, making no attempts to change course, from the beginning of the video sequence until collision. This indicates that Pilot B was either not looking in the direction of travel, or WAS looking in the direction of travel but did not recognize that a collision was imminent. Either of these two explanations is disturbing.
Miraculously, after the collision, both pilots were able to remain in control of their gilders and were able to land safely immediately after the strike. The Falcon 2 suffered no damage. The Sport 2 did suffer a broken leading edge, just outboard of the port sprog. Despite the broken wing, Pilot A was somehow able to land without incident.
As all of us know, flying the Kagel Ridge can be very challenging when multiple pilots are in the air. Your head MUST be out of the cockpit at all times. Clear turns always, and be aware of your fellow pilots in terms of location, direction, intention, and skill level.
Never demand airspace from another pilot simply because you believe you have "right of way". The other pilot may not be aware of your presence, or simply may not agree with your ideas on "rules of the road". Never hesitate to abandon your line if you feel it is unsafe, or about to become so.
Bottom line, keep your head on a swivel when you are up in the air, whether you are flying the Kagel ridge or the big skies of the Owens Valley. You never know when someone or something might be headed your way!
Pilot A was an experienced H-5 with multiple ratings, flying a Sport 2 135. Pilot B, seen flying up the ridge in the video, is a new H-2. flying a Falcon 2 195.
Pilot A, who has his camera mounted on his wing and who is the source of this video, stated that he may have been somewhat distracted with his cameras at the time of the incident. In the video, it appears that although he did clear his right turn, it appears that he did not clear back to the left when he went wings level.
Pilot B is seen in the upper left corner of the video flying directly at Pilot A with wings level, making no attempts to change course, from the beginning of the video sequence until collision. This indicates that Pilot B was either not looking in the direction of travel, or WAS looking in the direction of travel but did not recognize that a collision was imminent. Either of these two explanations is disturbing.
Miraculously, after the collision, both pilots were able to remain in control of their gilders and were able to land safely immediately after the strike. The Falcon 2 suffered no damage. The Sport 2 did suffer a broken leading edge, just outboard of the port sprog. Despite the broken wing, Pilot A was somehow able to land without incident.
As all of us know, flying the Kagel Ridge can be very challenging when multiple pilots are in the air. Your head MUST be out of the cockpit at all times. Clear turns always, and be aware of your fellow pilots in terms of location, direction, intention, and skill level.
Never demand airspace from another pilot simply because you believe you have "right of way". The other pilot may not be aware of your presence, or simply may not agree with your ideas on "rules of the road". Never hesitate to abandon your line if you feel it is unsafe, or about to become so.
Bottom line, keep your head on a swivel when you are up in the air, whether you are flying the Kagel ridge or the big skies of the Owens Valley. You never know when someone or something might be headed your way!
Steve Murillo
- Steve90266
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:05 pm
- Location: Manhattan Beach
- Contact:
Bad Flying and some good luck
As Safety Director I was able to interview both pilots involved in the mishap.
Pilot A was an experienced H-5 with multiple ratings, flying a Sport 2 135. Pilot B, seen flying up the ridge in the video, is a new H-2. flying a Falcon 2 195.
Pilot A, who has his camera mounted on his wing and who is the source of this video, stated that he may have been somewhat distracted with his cameras at the time of the incident. In the video, it appears that although he did clear his right turn, it appears that he did not clear back to the left when he went wings level.
Pilot B is seen in the upper left corner of the video flying directly at Pilot A with wings level, making no attempts to change course, from the beginning of the video sequence until collision. This indicates that Pilot B was either not looking in the direction of travel, or WAS looking in the direction of travel but did not recognize that a collision was imminent. Either of these two explanations is disturbing.
Miraculously, after the collision, both pilots were able to remain in control of their gilders and were able to land safely immediately after the strike. The Falcon 2 suffered no damage. The Sport 2 did suffer a broken leading edge, just outboard of the port sprog. Despite the broken wing, Pilot A was somehow able to land without incident.
As all of us know, flying the Kagel Ridge can be very challenging when multiple pilots are in the air. Your head MUST be out of the cockpit at all times. Clear turns always, and be aware of your fellow pilots in terms of location, direction, intention, and skill level.
Never demand airspace from another pilot simply because you believe you have "right of way". The other pilot may not be aware of your presence, or simply may not agree with your ideas on "rules of the road". Never hesitate to abandon your line if you feel it is unsafe, or about to become so.
Bottom line, keep your head on a swivel when you are up in the air, whether you are flying the Kagel ridge or the big skies of the Owens Valley. You never know when someone or something might be headed your way!
Pilot A was an experienced H-5 with multiple ratings, flying a Sport 2 135. Pilot B, seen flying up the ridge in the video, is a new H-2. flying a Falcon 2 195.
Pilot A, who has his camera mounted on his wing and who is the source of this video, stated that he may have been somewhat distracted with his cameras at the time of the incident. In the video, it appears that although he did clear his right turn, it appears that he did not clear back to the left when he went wings level.
Pilot B is seen in the upper left corner of the video flying directly at Pilot A with wings level, making no attempts to change course, from the beginning of the video sequence until collision. This indicates that Pilot B was either not looking in the direction of travel, or WAS looking in the direction of travel but did not recognize that a collision was imminent. Either of these two explanations is disturbing.
Miraculously, after the collision, both pilots were able to remain in control of their gilders and were able to land safely immediately after the strike. The Falcon 2 suffered no damage. The Sport 2 did suffer a broken leading edge, just outboard of the port sprog. Despite the broken wing, Pilot A was somehow able to land without incident.
As all of us know, flying the Kagel Ridge can be very challenging when multiple pilots are in the air. Your head MUST be out of the cockpit at all times. Clear turns always, and be aware of your fellow pilots in terms of location, direction, intention, and skill level.
Never demand airspace from another pilot simply because you believe you have "right of way". The other pilot may not be aware of your presence, or simply may not agree with your ideas on "rules of the road". Never hesitate to abandon your line if you feel it is unsafe, or about to become so.
Bottom line, keep your head on a swivel when you are up in the air, whether you are flying the Kagel ridge or the big skies of the Owens Valley. You never know when someone or something might be headed your way!
Steve Murillo
Hey Everyone!
Let cut the niceties and start saving our friends, fellow club members and selves by changing the SHGA club's safety culture. Let's be perfectly honest about this and start by admitting that the bigger surprise is that there haven't been more accidents than we've had.
This incident was caused primarily by the distraction of having a camera onboard while flying in traffic and in proximity to terrain.
Let's talk about the FAR and SOP violations:
According to ridge soaring right of way rules the Sport 2 pilot had the right way because the ridge line is to his right. When two pilots approach head-on along a ridge the one who turns right to avoid the ridge must yield to the other.
However, the FARs (and therefore USHPA SOPs) sate:
This is also the second serious SHGA incident involving a camera that I'm aware of. The last happened at Big Sur a few years ago and resulted in a Falcon folding up right after launch. In that case the pilot was using a new camera mount and failed to fully insert the control bar into the corner bracket and the bolt did not go through the hole. Luckily the glider immediately folded up and fell only a short distance onto the hillside with no injuries.
Globally, there has been at least one documented fatal crash involving a camera. At a world meet some years ago the pilot draped his drag chute over the control bar in order to reposition his camera. The chute fell over the bar then inflated causing a fatal nose dive.
Enough about cameras as a contributing factor. Any and all distractions whether during set-up, launch, flight, landing and even post-flight disassembly can lead to a current or future incident. Obviously this isn't even the tip of the iceberg.
One of the best safety pushes I have ever received came from Ronaldo (of all people) when he talked me into breaking my glider down on launch during unusually gusty winds. The sales pitch Ron gave me was very convincing (leave it to a REALTOR®):
RK: Do you want to be able to fly tomorrow and the day after that?
JD: Yes, why?
RK: Then why risk it flying in conditions like this?
Leave it to one Yid to answer another Yid's question with a question. Yes it's true--safety can be a fun endeavor!
Let cut the niceties and start saving our friends, fellow club members and selves by changing the SHGA club's safety culture. Let's be perfectly honest about this and start by admitting that the bigger surprise is that there haven't been more accidents than we've had.
This incident was caused primarily by the distraction of having a camera onboard while flying in traffic and in proximity to terrain.
Let's talk about the FAR and SOP violations:
According to ridge soaring right of way rules the Sport 2 pilot had the right way because the ridge line is to his right. When two pilots approach head-on along a ridge the one who turns right to avoid the ridge must yield to the other.
However, the FARs (and therefore USHPA SOPs) sate:
Operating a camera while flying in proximity to other aircraft [ultralight vehicles] reduces vigilance while creating a collision hazard.Sec. 103.13 Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules.
(a) Each person operating an ultralight vehicle shall maintain vigilance so as to see and avoid aircraft and shall yield the right-of-way to all aircraft.
(b) No person may operate an ultralight vehicle in a manner that creates a collision hazard with respect to any aircraft.
This is also the second serious SHGA incident involving a camera that I'm aware of. The last happened at Big Sur a few years ago and resulted in a Falcon folding up right after launch. In that case the pilot was using a new camera mount and failed to fully insert the control bar into the corner bracket and the bolt did not go through the hole. Luckily the glider immediately folded up and fell only a short distance onto the hillside with no injuries.
Globally, there has been at least one documented fatal crash involving a camera. At a world meet some years ago the pilot draped his drag chute over the control bar in order to reposition his camera. The chute fell over the bar then inflated causing a fatal nose dive.
Enough about cameras as a contributing factor. Any and all distractions whether during set-up, launch, flight, landing and even post-flight disassembly can lead to a current or future incident. Obviously this isn't even the tip of the iceberg.
One of the best safety pushes I have ever received came from Ronaldo (of all people) when he talked me into breaking my glider down on launch during unusually gusty winds. The sales pitch Ron gave me was very convincing (leave it to a REALTOR®):
RK: Do you want to be able to fly tomorrow and the day after that?
JD: Yes, why?
RK: Then why risk it flying in conditions like this?
Leave it to one Yid to answer another Yid's question with a question. Yes it's true--safety can be a fun endeavor!
I'd like to congratulate both pilots for staying alive and landing safely. I'd also like to praise the individual who built and assembled my ex-Sport 2. It's survived looping, spinning, ME, being sleeved with a melted antenna, and now, this! Greblo should double its price!
To quote Chief,
"Thank the day, etc. etc."
So glad everyone is fine!
To quote Chief,
"Thank the day, etc. etc."
So glad everyone is fine!
janyce
"You HAVE to make it..."
"You HAVE to make it..."
- gregangsten
- Posts: 502
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:22 am
- Location: Westchester
Safety culture at Kagel
I hate to get baited into this but I cannot let this slide. This has nothing to do with any "Safety culture" or lack of it at Kagel. There is absolutely no lack of emphasis on safety at this site. What happened here was two screw-ups at the same time and place. One was fiddling with a camera under the assumption that in the light traffic there would not be a problem. The other was flying in a straight line, evidently oblivious to the fact that he was heading straight for another glider. This happened not because either pilot is a reckless hot dog and flaunts it, nor did it happen because they don't know ridge rules. Put two distractions together in the same time and place and you have an accident, whether it's in the air or on the freeway. Painting this site as some sort of free for all is completely inaccurate.
I was checking Pilot A (*precision course line flight) in the video. It is a sign-off in the windsports training manual
http://windsports.com/pdf/WSTrainingManual.pdf
And I think its the one where you fly over the bridge and look behind you while not changing heading. In the video he changes heading when he pulls the bar in, not from looking behind him.
Around 14 seconds in the video you can see both shadows.
I could only guess Pilot B has his eyes fixed on any signs of thermal triggers or hawk at the base of the mountain.
It could have been worse.
I saw this hang gliding mid air collision comedy sketch in July on "Whose line is it anyway". Please forgive me, its bad, and the chute is too small.
"Whose Line is it Anyway - Living Scenery 16.07.2013"
http://youtu.be/GpV8f-VFDGg?t=2m7s
http://windsports.com/pdf/WSTrainingManual.pdf
And I think its the one where you fly over the bridge and look behind you while not changing heading. In the video he changes heading when he pulls the bar in, not from looking behind him.
Around 14 seconds in the video you can see both shadows.
I could only guess Pilot B has his eyes fixed on any signs of thermal triggers or hawk at the base of the mountain.
It could have been worse.
I saw this hang gliding mid air collision comedy sketch in July on "Whose line is it anyway". Please forgive me, its bad, and the chute is too small.
"Whose Line is it Anyway - Living Scenery 16.07.2013"
http://youtu.be/GpV8f-VFDGg?t=2m7s
Pilot B
It has been over a week and not a single word from Pilot "B". Any reason?
For what it is worth - I had the experience of being in the air at the same as Pilot "B" about a month ago. While there was no specific issues - I never the less have never felt so uncomfortable. Just bad vibes.
Also - for what it is worth - I will fly with Pilot "A" any time, any place.
For what it is worth - I had the experience of being in the air at the same as Pilot "B" about a month ago. While there was no specific issues - I never the less have never felt so uncomfortable. Just bad vibes.
Also - for what it is worth - I will fly with Pilot "A" any time, any place.
Greg said it best.
"What happened here was two screw-ups at the same time and place."
Pilot "A" accepted a portion of the fault, and it is apparent that if only one of the two pilots were not distracted, it could have possibly been avoided.
Don after flying with pilot "B" (an H2), did you talk with him about your "Bad Vibes"? Maybe you could teach him some proper etiquette in flying with other pilots.
"What happened here was two screw-ups at the same time and place."
Pilot "A" accepted a portion of the fault, and it is apparent that if only one of the two pilots were not distracted, it could have possibly been avoided.
Don after flying with pilot "B" (an H2), did you talk with him about your "Bad Vibes"? Maybe you could teach him some proper etiquette in flying with other pilots.
- gregangsten
- Posts: 502
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:22 am
- Location: Westchester
Vibes
I don't think anybody should be condemned here. From what I have seen, just about every H2 spends his first year or so very nearly overwhelmed with just flying the glider and this kind of thing is more likely to happen. It takes time to develop the habits and learn the techniques to fly in a crowd -- that's why those streamers go on the kingpost. You can certainly include me and a big majority of pilots in that population. Eventually it actually becomes fun, up to a point anyway.
I don't think any novice pilot should be discouraged if they are called out for this sort of thing. It's to be expected and you will outgrow it. Just be willing to accept some advice now and then.
I don't think any novice pilot should be discouraged if they are called out for this sort of thing. It's to be expected and you will outgrow it. Just be willing to accept some advice now and then.
This is where I disagree with the president and jump on the Dietch bandwagon. We need a good old fashion witch hunt around here. At the least a kangaroo safety court. I can see dietch instituting some common sense reforms to really clean up this LZ. Someone who can see through the bureaucratic fog and make real changes. Someone whom really understands "safety in the totality." Lower storage rates, better services. More dialog with the ice cream man. I've heard Don B. has been profiteering off the local kids that vending machine. I'd like to see a local "yocal educational endowment" started on the backs off those $.60 sodas.