Bad cell service? Answer LZ Cellullar repeater/booster
Moderator: Chip
I'd like to see it. These are not problems for me personally, but some people trying to avoid Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome my need it. So "This is a civil rights issue." I have called the LZ phone and sometimes nobody answers even when people are there. One phone for everyone means it often does not get answered. If I'm standing with my glider in the middle of the shooting range I need someone to answer. On the other hand I have not had a problem getting a signal at the spot landing spot, but that is only good for outgoing unless we move the Gazebo there.
I think the club should pay since it's not that much, although I would contribute if it is needed. I just feel we as a club have the money, and others will benefit now and in the future well beyond those who contribute now. It's like $2 per member and it's it's a one time expense.
Good job today on the work crew. There were a lot of people and a lot got done. I feel safer, what a fool! At least I got my monthly shower.
I think the club should pay since it's not that much, although I would contribute if it is needed. I just feel we as a club have the money, and others will benefit now and in the future well beyond those who contribute now. It's like $2 per member and it's it's a one time expense.
Good job today on the work crew. There were a lot of people and a lot got done. I feel safer, what a fool! At least I got my monthly shower.
Flyyyyy
Re: Guess that's all we need to hear
I agree with you Chip. With cell service and cell data plans that are available now, actual cell coverage in the LZ could be a very good thing. The thought of being able to access virtually unlimited weather reports, surrounding airport conditions, and various other things that could affect safety in the air through the internet via our cell networks seems like a definite "life and safety issue".Chip wrote:I see the ability to have better cell phone coverage in the LZ as a life and safety issue. The better coverage is a good thing and not a problem or a privacy issue. Lets not make it one.
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skygeek AKA Seabass
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Here is a link to a video about the product.
http://www.wi-ex.com/Page3429.aspx
Malury had a question about how it works outside, I will have to call technical support Monday & ask them. I will get back to you then.
http://www.wi-ex.com/Page3429.aspx
Malury had a question about how it works outside, I will have to call technical support Monday & ask them. I will get back to you then.
I'm not sure why anyone would think it was a privacy issue (see above.) And I've changed my mind about the safety issue. While I don't think it is a large safety issue, it certainly could help in the right circumstances.
So, I vote for the club to pay or at least kick in. (Match what the members pay?) Whatever y'all want is fine with me. But it does make sense to get it done one way or the other. It isn't all THAT much money, and Sebastian has graciously offered to do the work. Hard to argue with that.
Thanks Sebastian!
So, I vote for the club to pay or at least kick in. (Match what the members pay?) Whatever y'all want is fine with me. But it does make sense to get it done one way or the other. It isn't all THAT much money, and Sebastian has graciously offered to do the work. Hard to argue with that.
Thanks Sebastian!
Fly High; Fly Far; Fly Safe -- George
According to my math, 10,000 square feet is the area contained in a circle with a radius of about 55.2 feet' So there's not much danger of the SIBL moms yakking it up on our dime (what about the SIBL dads, you sexist pigs - - as far as I have seen, annoying cell phone use appears to be unrelated to sex).
I'm with Joseph and Doug on the constitutional right of freedom of communication. Like the freedom of religion, it includes the freedom from other peoples' communication (or religion). Freedom from other people's cellphones is a cherished right for which I fought and died in each of two tours of duty in Vietnam.
Technical questions remain about whether it can work outside, or tolerate the weather, and where you put the center of the circle. Top of the flagpole? Nothing's supposed to be above the flag. Up in a tree? Involves wiring challenges. I think we should see if it will work before we spend the members' money. That's called "due diligence." Before the board approves the expenditure of Doug's money for something he doesn't care about (maybe doesn't want) we have to know if it works, or if we're just voiding the Club's bladder of funds, so to speak.
Or some proponent or group of proponents might agree to indemnify the Club for the cost in case it doesn't work. The Club pays first, and if the booster works, fine. If the Club spends the money without checking out the feasibility, and it doesn't work, the Club is made whole by those who want to roll the dice, blunder ahead regardless, invade a foreigh country on false representations. You get the idea.
However, if the booster can work, I think it would be a nice convenience for that crack den of members who are strung out on cellular. Apparently, JT is already Jonesin'.
Please don't let JT's forum voice fall silent! Contribute to the JT securitization of indemnity fund., early and often.
My name is Flamejob, and I'd approve of this message if it weren't so confusing and preachy.
I'm with Joseph and Doug on the constitutional right of freedom of communication. Like the freedom of religion, it includes the freedom from other peoples' communication (or religion). Freedom from other people's cellphones is a cherished right for which I fought and died in each of two tours of duty in Vietnam.
Technical questions remain about whether it can work outside, or tolerate the weather, and where you put the center of the circle. Top of the flagpole? Nothing's supposed to be above the flag. Up in a tree? Involves wiring challenges. I think we should see if it will work before we spend the members' money. That's called "due diligence." Before the board approves the expenditure of Doug's money for something he doesn't care about (maybe doesn't want) we have to know if it works, or if we're just voiding the Club's bladder of funds, so to speak.
Or some proponent or group of proponents might agree to indemnify the Club for the cost in case it doesn't work. The Club pays first, and if the booster works, fine. If the Club spends the money without checking out the feasibility, and it doesn't work, the Club is made whole by those who want to roll the dice, blunder ahead regardless, invade a foreigh country on false representations. You get the idea.
However, if the booster can work, I think it would be a nice convenience for that crack den of members who are strung out on cellular. Apparently, JT is already Jonesin'.
Please don't let JT's forum voice fall silent! Contribute to the JT securitization of indemnity fund., early and often.
My name is Flamejob, and I'd approve of this message if it weren't so confusing and preachy.
Soar With Prudent Passion
Larry Chamblee
Larry Chamblee
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JT
About everyone else's cell coverage... I couldn't care less. My Verizon phone works fine in the LZ. And I usually turn it off while there.
About posting here... I'm getting tired of participating in discussions that devolve into a pretty fair approximation of what goes on at BOD meetings. I don't go to those anymore, either.
About the Board supporting a member's proposal and showing that something more tangible to the membership can be accomplished... priceless (well, maybe $600).
Will there be this much discussion about Wi-Fi in the LZ when Verizon finally notifies me that DSL is available at the LZ number?
Too tired to care.
About posting here... I'm getting tired of participating in discussions that devolve into a pretty fair approximation of what goes on at BOD meetings. I don't go to those anymore, either.
About the Board supporting a member's proposal and showing that something more tangible to the membership can be accomplished... priceless (well, maybe $600).
Will there be this much discussion about Wi-Fi in the LZ when Verizon finally notifies me that DSL is available at the LZ number?
Too tired to care.
Chip - I was not putting forth an arguement against
Bottom line this is all a waste of time if the thing won't work in the first place so figure out a plan on how to test it.
I use the wireless network. I think a web cam at the L/Z would be a good idea. I have been frustrated about the lack of signal at the L/Z.
We should be considerate of others which is a concern I think we all should have.
I use the wireless network. I think a web cam at the L/Z would be a good idea. I have been frustrated about the lack of signal at the L/Z.
We should be considerate of others which is a concern I think we all should have.
Of course it is a waste of time if it doesn't work in the LZ. My vote for it assumed (bad idea) that due diligence would be done first. I should have been more explicit. And I know better, after having spent time with Larry. 
Can we get a "test" unit? If not, can we return it if it doesn't work? Silly to spend the money if it doesn't do what we need.
As for the "freedom from other's cell phones" I certainly understand that! I'm not so sure that having this dohicky will make that worse. Right now, people stand on the table and yell at their phones a lot, since that seems to be one of the "hot-spots". If they could get better coverage, maybe they'd be elsewhere in the LZ and a bit less likely to yell. Or maybe not.
But it does need testing first, in some way or another, or an assurance that it can be returned for full refund if it doesn't work in the LZ.
Can we get a "test" unit? If not, can we return it if it doesn't work? Silly to spend the money if it doesn't do what we need.
As for the "freedom from other's cell phones" I certainly understand that! I'm not so sure that having this dohicky will make that worse. Right now, people stand on the table and yell at their phones a lot, since that seems to be one of the "hot-spots". If they could get better coverage, maybe they'd be elsewhere in the LZ and a bit less likely to yell. Or maybe not.
But it does need testing first, in some way or another, or an assurance that it can be returned for full refund if it doesn't work in the LZ.
Fly High; Fly Far; Fly Safe -- George
Cell Signal Maximizer
I'd definitely contribute $20 for more bars (on my cell tel, that is). To those who feel it'll happen sooner without Board involvement, you're probably right. And I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily. These smaller expenses hardly merit setting the gears of a club-wide vote into motion.
But the President has power to make discretionary expenditures. So let's say I give my $20 to SeaBass and maybe twenty or so other interested folks do the same -- there's at least $400. Then we can ask the Pres to use his discretionary dollars for whatever remains of the balance. I think the idea would be well received.
But the President has power to make discretionary expenditures. So let's say I give my $20 to SeaBass and maybe twenty or so other interested folks do the same -- there's at least $400. Then we can ask the Pres to use his discretionary dollars for whatever remains of the balance. I think the idea would be well received.
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skygeek AKA Seabass
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Steve90266
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Let's do this
As one who likes to be reachable, and who needs to reach out on occasion, I am for this enhancement to the LZ. As a safety issue, anything we can do to improve things is almost a mandate. I'm in for $20 or whatever the board deems is necessary.
Steve M.
Steve M.
Steve Murillo
You Need to Get on the Agenda!
First to be considered you need to be on the agenda. Can someone respond to this post saying that they are asking for the project below to be added to the agenda for this Thursday's board meeting. This project cannot be considered unless it is on the agenda. Please put an estimated budget (xxx.xx).
So that projects like this can be mentored along without requiring the members to wait until the next board meeting, I will create a small action committee of one to two people who are empowered to act on this project. So if you get stuck, you talk to these people and they will be able to give you an answer.
Project: Improve cell phone reception in the L/Z
Benefit: Improves safety in the L/Z because emergency calls can be made more easily. Pilots landing out would be able to reach multiple people in the L/Z rather than relying on the L/Z phone. We believe that it is a benefit to all members to be reachable, and that there is no significant disruption in the L/Z from cell service.
Request: We believe that an expenditure of xxx.xx dollars will be required. We request that the board reimburse this expenditure after it proves successful, or that the board approves xxx.xx in funding as long as the involved members agree to reimburse the board should the system not prove effective. We will not know whether the system will work until it is in place. We therefore ask the right to place and test devices in the L/Z, connecting them to L/Z power and that we be able to add an antennae or other ancillary equipment that the device requires to existing structures in a safe location.
Contact: I need a member who is in charge of this puppy
So that projects like this can be mentored along without requiring the members to wait until the next board meeting, I will create a small action committee of one to two people who are empowered to act on this project. So if you get stuck, you talk to these people and they will be able to give you an answer.
Project: Improve cell phone reception in the L/Z
Benefit: Improves safety in the L/Z because emergency calls can be made more easily. Pilots landing out would be able to reach multiple people in the L/Z rather than relying on the L/Z phone. We believe that it is a benefit to all members to be reachable, and that there is no significant disruption in the L/Z from cell service.
Request: We believe that an expenditure of xxx.xx dollars will be required. We request that the board reimburse this expenditure after it proves successful, or that the board approves xxx.xx in funding as long as the involved members agree to reimburse the board should the system not prove effective. We will not know whether the system will work until it is in place. We therefore ask the right to place and test devices in the L/Z, connecting them to L/Z power and that we be able to add an antennae or other ancillary equipment that the device requires to existing structures in a safe location.
Contact: I need a member who is in charge of this puppy
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Ken Andrews
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Re: Bad cell service?
Jeepers!
The responsibility of the board is to review proposals, and spend club money on those that will benefit the club as a whole. As soon as there's a plausible proposal, I'm confident the board will consider it, and in all probability, fund it. Anyone can do the homework necessary to turn an idea into a plausible proposal, not just board members. For example, BJ Strand proposed a pancake breakfast and work party. He offered to coordinate it and provided a cost estimate for food, the board supported the idea, and look how much was accomplished! Thanks, BJ.
A proposal doesn't need to be formal or anything, but it does need to answer some obvious questions:
* Who will take the lead on this project? That is, who will shop around for the repeater and the necessary antennas and wires and stuff, install them, and maintain them?
* Can we reasonably expect the system to work? For example, does it require good cell service somewhere on the property for the repeater antenna? Will it work with all cell phone companies, or only one or two?
* How well will the system last? In particular, which components have to be out in the weather, which can be protected from wind and rain and vandalism, and how?
* Roughly what will it cost? That includes the purchase price for the repeater, antennas, coax cables, etc., and a guess at annual maintenance costs if any parts will have to be replaced frequently.
If someone can provide good answers to these questions, you'll have my vote for the project. Until then, this is all just talk.
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By the way, you can always help out a friend by answering the LZ pay phone when it rings. For safety and common courtesy, this seems like a no-brainer to me.
The responsibility of the board is to review proposals, and spend club money on those that will benefit the club as a whole. As soon as there's a plausible proposal, I'm confident the board will consider it, and in all probability, fund it. Anyone can do the homework necessary to turn an idea into a plausible proposal, not just board members. For example, BJ Strand proposed a pancake breakfast and work party. He offered to coordinate it and provided a cost estimate for food, the board supported the idea, and look how much was accomplished! Thanks, BJ.
A proposal doesn't need to be formal or anything, but it does need to answer some obvious questions:
* Who will take the lead on this project? That is, who will shop around for the repeater and the necessary antennas and wires and stuff, install them, and maintain them?
* Can we reasonably expect the system to work? For example, does it require good cell service somewhere on the property for the repeater antenna? Will it work with all cell phone companies, or only one or two?
* How well will the system last? In particular, which components have to be out in the weather, which can be protected from wind and rain and vandalism, and how?
* Roughly what will it cost? That includes the purchase price for the repeater, antennas, coax cables, etc., and a guess at annual maintenance costs if any parts will have to be replaced frequently.
If someone can provide good answers to these questions, you'll have my vote for the project. Until then, this is all just talk.
--
By the way, you can always help out a friend by answering the LZ pay phone when it rings. For safety and common courtesy, this seems like a no-brainer to me.
We Need to Try Something Different
What is easy for some is not so easy for others. Lawyers and engineers like or even love working with documents, everyone else does not.
Pancakes are simple, I don't think BJ would have gotten out so easy if he was asking for money and wanting to put equipment up, see your questions and Larry's due diligence post
I think it is unlikely that Ken's questions will be answered, because we have been asking for this same process and it has never worked in the past. It's at least twice the work if not more. You have to write the answer down, in many cases you may not know the answer until you try it. Then you have to take it to the board which can take 2 months.
Why can't we have a more formal process that is more collaborative with the members. The end result is the same thing, but you don't have to have it all done before hand.
I am not sure if this will work. If no one responds to my post and we can't even get that level of involvment then I don't know what to do.
We have to try something different.
Pancakes are simple, I don't think BJ would have gotten out so easy if he was asking for money and wanting to put equipment up, see your questions and Larry's due diligence post
I think it is unlikely that Ken's questions will be answered, because we have been asking for this same process and it has never worked in the past. It's at least twice the work if not more. You have to write the answer down, in many cases you may not know the answer until you try it. Then you have to take it to the board which can take 2 months.
Why can't we have a more formal process that is more collaborative with the members. The end result is the same thing, but you don't have to have it all done before hand.
I am not sure if this will work. If no one responds to my post and we can't even get that level of involvment then I don't know what to do.
We have to try something different.
Last edited by Joseph on Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sounds like there's a lot of interest not only in having increased cell signal in the LZ, but also in member contributions towards said service. Perhaps someone should take a poll/pledge survey and tabulate how much monetary interest there really is.
That way the two possible proposals would be:
1) The board pays $X for the proposal
2) The president uses $Y of discretionary funds and members put forth $Z
or (sorry, three possible proposals)
3) The members put forth enough to cover the bill
That way the two possible proposals would be:
1) The board pays $X for the proposal
2) The president uses $Y of discretionary funds and members put forth $Z
or (sorry, three possible proposals)
3) The members put forth enough to cover the bill
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skygeek AKA Seabass
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Talked to the manufacturer today & they said it should work.
Before permanently installing it I would free run all the wiring & place the equipment where it will go, it will stay that way for a week to get input on how it worked. After that we would have to run conduit if needed to the exterior antenna location & install a power outlet where the signal amplifier would go, this would be somewhere under the gazebo. As for the cost it would be $500.00-$600,00 for the unit depending on what antenna is used & $150.00 for wiring & conduit & adding the outlet. The labor would be free if someone helps me install it. The additional $150.00 would apply once its decided that it is worth permanetly installing it. If it turns out that it does not work I can return it.
Before permanently installing it I would free run all the wiring & place the equipment where it will go, it will stay that way for a week to get input on how it worked. After that we would have to run conduit if needed to the exterior antenna location & install a power outlet where the signal amplifier would go, this would be somewhere under the gazebo. As for the cost it would be $500.00-$600,00 for the unit depending on what antenna is used & $150.00 for wiring & conduit & adding the outlet. The labor would be free if someone helps me install it. The additional $150.00 would apply once its decided that it is worth permanetly installing it. If it turns out that it does not work I can return it.
Skygeek, I will use your post for the agenda
I will put on the agenda for the board to consider the installation of this equipment and the reimbursement for expenses not covered by contributions should the unit work and meet requirements to be specified during board discussion.