Unsafe Bag-Craft

Talk about anything hang gliding.

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WingNutz
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Unsafe Bag-Craft

Post by WingNutz »

Talk about safety. Look at this:

http://ozreport.com/13.29#3

Twenty-four reserve deployments and one fatality in a single paraglider comp.

The sense of the article is that high-performance paragliders are really unsafe, even under the control of top pilots.

A few of you may remember Bob England, a SHGA member who died at Torrey testing a hi-perf paraglider in the early 1990's.
Soar With Prudent Passion

Larry Chamblee
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lswendt
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Post by lswendt »

Bob died just before I had my first solo flight from Kagel. I trained on one of the hills in Simi. There is a happy face cut into the weeds of a hillside just as you drop over the hill. The last time I saw Bob was when he was flying over the happy face. I think of him every time I see that face.

It's been a hard road to flying (those who know me, know just HOW hard it's been) and I have often thought about switching to paragliding (they actually make them small enough for me).

Then I read something like this.

lw
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frosty
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Re: Unsafe Bag-Craft

Post by frosty »

Flamejob wrote:Talk about safety
You're absolutely right - paragliding is dangerous, which in turn must mean that hang gliding is safe.

Just read the perpetual circle-jerking to that effect on the oz report forum, hanggliding.org, etc. Truth is in the obsession, eh?

BTW, Bob and I each flew the same Apco Zen for the first time on Friday, May 31, 1996 at Kagel. The next day, June 1, 1996, he died flying it at Torrey Pines.

Res Ipsa Loquitur
greblo
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Post by greblo »

My 35 years of studying hang gliding and paragliding accidents suggests that participants of both hang gliding and paragliding are part of a vast "right wing" conspiracy. One that tries to convince (con) it's members into believing that our sports are safe; and that those pilots that get hurt or killed must have done something wrong. Rarely is it recognized that hang gliders and paragliders (paragliders more than hang gliders) are very limited (perhaps deficient) flying machines, that are quite fun, quite effective, and quite predictable, in smooth air. Introduce moderate to strong turbulence and these limitations or deficiencies become quite apparent. Very skilled pilots get hurt and killed doing nothing different ("wrong") than the norm. It's the norm that wrong, not the pilot. Flying hang gliders and paragliders in the stronger winds, gusts, and thermals, as is commonly accepted, reminds me of the old Tarzan movies where the African villagers would go out in the jungle at night to gather food. Occasionally one would get dragged off and eaten by a lion.

Often pilots quit these sports when they finally recognize this fact. Another option would be to fly in gentler conditions. Of course, most villagers will unwittingly choose to remain part of nature's food chain.
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Groundhog
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Post by Groundhog »

The visceral urge to fly is very powerful, not to mention the satisfaction of participating in a sport requiring skill, strength and endurance. The views are often extraordinary and the camaraderie is fulfilling. Bob England and 7 other friends didn't stop my flying, it was the loss of my urge to be airborne in order to feel really alive.

Needless to say, when I lost my mojo and stopped flying, my family and coworkers breathed out a collective sigh of relief. Personally, I regret the loss.

If anyone finds where I left my mojo, please let me know.
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JD
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Post by JD »

Groundhog wrote:..........If anyone finds where I left my mojo, please let me know.
Drive chase for me flying XC and I'll bet you'll find you mojo again. If our impatient driver hadn't kept rushing me to catch up to Southside yesterday, I might have flown a lot farther than 19.5 miles. See, if you drove for me I could have relaxed and tanked up at Romero and would have made it past Noone peak with enough altitude and lift development to cross the Casitas pass. Stay tuned for the exciting narrated video and you'll find your mojo. Sneak peek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGcNb0skUOQ
JBBenson
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Post by JBBenson »

Any aircraft whose wing collapses on a routine basis is more dangerous than an aircraft whose wing does not. Ipso facto.

Sorry.
OSCAR
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Post by OSCAR »

JBBenson wrote:
Any aircraft whose wing collapses on a routine basis is more dangerous than an aircraft whose wing does not.


I would have to agree it make perfect sense.I would feel much safer in a HG or Sailplane.but that's just me.
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dhmartens
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Post by dhmartens »

I talked with an experienced paraglider pilot who said he collapses part of his wing on purpose at times, up to 60% of it. I asked him why a few short batons are not used and he said that would be experimental. He said you could still accordion it down on the ground though. I couldn't help thinking to my self if Ford or GM manufactured paragliders they would be forced to recall them and install batons. In the hang gliding documentaries there was a time there were no batons but the sport really took off after they were used. I suppose the African night hunters would be safer too if they had night vision and infrared goggles. I looked up the Australian site and it seems gentle except it said it can be bumpy in the summer (which it is now). Does anyone know how many paragliders were flying that day?

Doug
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Faiz
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Post by Faiz »

I only fly bags so far, but have to admit that the idea of a wing that doesn't collapse sounds appealing.

I just returned from Valle de Bravo, where the Paragliding Worlds actually took place. The mention of Australia in the XC Magazine link above seems to refer to something else.

There were 170 pilots in the competition. The US team came in 5th place, with all three guys (Brad Gunnuscio, Eric Reed and Matt Beechinor) winning a task. Bi-wingual pilot Kari Castle came in 5th among the women. These are very strong results for the US compared to past world competitions.

The last day was a very high pressure day, with reserve deployments and helicopter rescues. This day was cancelled, but the other 10 days had completed tasks and large numbers of pilots in goal each day. The fatal accident occurred near the Penon, a famous rock formation visible from launch. I don't think there were serious injuries from the reserve deployments, but I'm not sure.

Just chiming in because the question was asked, not because I have any insights into the safety question inherent in this thread.
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Joseph
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Classic Us and Them

Post by Joseph »

Nothing good ever comes of this.
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