The Gazebo
Moderator: Chip
"White Elephant"
I voted for the "White Elephant" as you call it. BUT - in all fairness, I would like to know what the total cost will be to build it. The original estimate was in the low 30's - if my memory isn't failing 
I'm also not sure what approach the Board has in mind for the construction - my personal choice would be to submit the approved construction plans (once the approval is obtained) to several General Contractor for bids. Once the bids are received then we have a known cost. The other approach is to "play" General Contractor and arrange all the sub-contractors ourselves - the pitfalls of this path are many and the benefit ($$$) may be minimal at best in the end.
Another (minor) thing to keep in mind is that the new structure will accomodate glider storage. Last I heard the existing storage containers are full as is Greblo's storage. Therefore, over time, the new structure's revenue will be beneficial to the club.
As a result of the above ramble - I have not voted. I believe that if a General Contractor bid is within 15% of the original estimate (low 30's) then the Club Membership vote should still stand. If the bid is more than 15% of the original estimate I'm sure the Board will discuss it to death - and in the end make the right decision.
I'm also not sure what approach the Board has in mind for the construction - my personal choice would be to submit the approved construction plans (once the approval is obtained) to several General Contractor for bids. Once the bids are received then we have a known cost. The other approach is to "play" General Contractor and arrange all the sub-contractors ourselves - the pitfalls of this path are many and the benefit ($$$) may be minimal at best in the end.Another (minor) thing to keep in mind is that the new structure will accomodate glider storage. Last I heard the existing storage containers are full as is Greblo's storage. Therefore, over time, the new structure's revenue will be beneficial to the club.
As a result of the above ramble - I have not voted. I believe that if a General Contractor bid is within 15% of the original estimate (low 30's) then the Club Membership vote should still stand. If the bid is more than 15% of the original estimate I'm sure the Board will discuss it to death - and in the end make the right decision.
As a board member, I can assure everyone that we are doing everything in our power to have an accurate cost analysis prior to final approval of the project. The important thing for us, as a board, at this time is to get a building permit in hand to totally establish our presence in the community. Just getting an approved plan has been a major effort on the part of many club members. They have spent many hours of their personal time in trying to get everything together. I, for one, really appreciate all of their efforts. Please also keep in mind that, as Don states, this will also create more glider storage which brings revenue to the club. This will help to offset some of the costs of the construction and also help pay for any maintainence needed in the future. There have already been a couple of requests sent out for bids on the costs but as yet I am unaware of any bids. When the board has some true numbers to work from the board will seek input from the club members. The board has no intentions of doing anything of this magnitude without a transparent presentation to the club members. Keep in mind that board meetings are open to all club members and the board encourages anyone that wishes to be involved in this or any other project.
-Fred-
-Fred-
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Rome Dodson
- Posts: 385
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:42 am
gazibo!
HEAR-HEAR!!!!!!REVOTE AFTER COST ANALASIS, HOW ABOUT IVEY ALONG FENCE TO HIDE OUR UGLY(?) GAZIBO, AND SAVE BOQUE BUCKS, THEN WE WILL BE ABLE TO AFFORD WATER. HOW ABOUT ANOTHER CONTAINER, IT WILL HOLD MORE GLIDERS AND ONLY COST A SMALL FRACTION OF GAZIBO ROME
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Rome Dodson
- Posts: 385
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:42 am
gazibo!
HEAR-HEAR!!!!!!REVOTE AFTER COST ANALASIS, HOW ABOUT IVEY ALONG FENCE TO HIDE OUR UGLY(?) GAZIBO, AND SAVE BOQUE BUCKS, THEN WE WILL BE ABLE TO AFFORD WATER. HOW ABOUT ANOTHER CONTAINER, IT WILL HOLD MORE GLIDERS AND ONLY COST A SMALL FRACTION OF GAZIBO ROME
What has been going on
It is good that this topic has been brought up.
When this project began it was the firm belief that we could not even build a gazebo without a Conditional User Permit (CUP). Obtaining a CUP is not a fast process, nor is it cheap costing more that 10k and taking the better part of a year. In most cases an Environmental Impact Report is required and our neighbors are also allowed to comment on what we can and cannot do at the L/Z.
One of the outcomes of this project is that we no longer need a CUP. So we have saved over 10k and about a year as the permitting process happens after the CUP. If everyone is getting impatient now, I would hate to see where we would be if we were in the middle of a CUP with the permit nowhere in sight.
This brings up the next point which is that all of these other options require a permit as well. So, if something else should be built rather than this gazebo, perhaps we can get some volunteers to start that project.
It is fair to ask about costing and the board and I are very concerned about this as well. At this moment Joe Greblo is costing the plans.
Many people have worked very hard on this project. I would ask that the membership have a little more patience so that we can make a sound decision with valid information.
If there is interest in the project as people have put in time writing about it, perhaps those interested can further assist beyond writing by asking Joe Greblo or Jim Thompson how you can help. Not only can that energy be put to use on the project but you will also learn first hand what is going on by contributing to it.
Please forgive any typos or grammatical errors as this email was written during my lunch and I don’t want to take the time to further check it.
Happy flying.
When this project began it was the firm belief that we could not even build a gazebo without a Conditional User Permit (CUP). Obtaining a CUP is not a fast process, nor is it cheap costing more that 10k and taking the better part of a year. In most cases an Environmental Impact Report is required and our neighbors are also allowed to comment on what we can and cannot do at the L/Z.
One of the outcomes of this project is that we no longer need a CUP. So we have saved over 10k and about a year as the permitting process happens after the CUP. If everyone is getting impatient now, I would hate to see where we would be if we were in the middle of a CUP with the permit nowhere in sight.
This brings up the next point which is that all of these other options require a permit as well. So, if something else should be built rather than this gazebo, perhaps we can get some volunteers to start that project.
It is fair to ask about costing and the board and I are very concerned about this as well. At this moment Joe Greblo is costing the plans.
Many people have worked very hard on this project. I would ask that the membership have a little more patience so that we can make a sound decision with valid information.
If there is interest in the project as people have put in time writing about it, perhaps those interested can further assist beyond writing by asking Joe Greblo or Jim Thompson how you can help. Not only can that energy be put to use on the project but you will also learn first hand what is going on by contributing to it.
Please forgive any typos or grammatical errors as this email was written during my lunch and I don’t want to take the time to further check it.
Happy flying.
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JT
Rather than speculate, it may be worthwhile to simply ask a question or two. Here's an update:
The plans were provided by Hiro Matsunaga around mid-April. After review, I specified several changes to increase the glider storage and remove a few unnescessary supports that were visually obstructive. The plans were revised and returned two weeks ago.
Two contractors are working up itemized bids. I expect them to be submitted next week by their estimates.
The prevailing opinion of the BOD and those close to the project is that construction will exceed the original estimate which was $40-45,000. How much the overrun will be is unknown until we receive the numbers from the contractors. Costs would be mitigated by member participation and could be reduced by sponsor participation, another avenue that I will investigate.
Should the costs significantly exceed (greater than $10- 15,000) the original estimate, the issue will go back to the membership. Options are to "damn the torpedoes", reduce the scope of the project, drop it all together or build a much simpler version. However, as obtaining a building permit is paramount to establishing our priveledge to operate a hang gliding park, the BOD will continue to pursue a construction project, whatever form it may take. (According to the Zonilng office, the Santiago Estates CUP establishes our existence but a permit will cement this precedent)
As always, the BOD and project leaders will solicit the opinions and will respond to the desires of the club members when considering an issue of this magnitude. I suggest that the members watch the forum for news of the contractors' response. I will make this process as transparent as the members wish.
The plans were provided by Hiro Matsunaga around mid-April. After review, I specified several changes to increase the glider storage and remove a few unnescessary supports that were visually obstructive. The plans were revised and returned two weeks ago.
Two contractors are working up itemized bids. I expect them to be submitted next week by their estimates.
The prevailing opinion of the BOD and those close to the project is that construction will exceed the original estimate which was $40-45,000. How much the overrun will be is unknown until we receive the numbers from the contractors. Costs would be mitigated by member participation and could be reduced by sponsor participation, another avenue that I will investigate.
Should the costs significantly exceed (greater than $10- 15,000) the original estimate, the issue will go back to the membership. Options are to "damn the torpedoes", reduce the scope of the project, drop it all together or build a much simpler version. However, as obtaining a building permit is paramount to establishing our priveledge to operate a hang gliding park, the BOD will continue to pursue a construction project, whatever form it may take. (According to the Zonilng office, the Santiago Estates CUP establishes our existence but a permit will cement this precedent)
As always, the BOD and project leaders will solicit the opinions and will respond to the desires of the club members when considering an issue of this magnitude. I suggest that the members watch the forum for news of the contractors' response. I will make this process as transparent as the members wish.
Last edited by JT on Fri May 29, 2009 9:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Lynn McLaughlin
- Posts: 297
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:08 pm
Many thanks to Barton for starting this topic. As we discussed in the LZ this past weekend, I can see that a bit of SHGA member outreach is needed at this time, on this topic. I commend you for bringing it up.
As a member of SHGA, I commend all of us for our willingness to be diligent and participative. Really... as Joseph and Fred suggest, your BOD welcomes member attendence at our monthly meetings. Just so every one is current: Joe G and Jim T, among others, have worked for over two years on this project. It would be good for everyone to have an update...
As a member of SHGA, I commend all of us for our willingness to be diligent and participative. Really... as Joseph and Fred suggest, your BOD welcomes member attendence at our monthly meetings. Just so every one is current: Joe G and Jim T, among others, have worked for over two years on this project. It would be good for everyone to have an update...
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Lynn McLaughlin
- Posts: 297
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:08 pm
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Rome Dodson
- Posts: 385
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:42 am
GAZIBO
BARTON YOU TROUBLE MAKER! AS FOR HELPING OUT I WILL COORDINATE MOVEING OLD GAZIBO ABOUT 20 FT. NORTH, SO WE WILL HAVE SHADE FOR SUMMER 2009 AND 2010,(POSSIBLY 2011). NOOTENBOOM SAID IT WOULD BE EASY TO TOW GAZIBO, (BY BRACEING IT FIRST.) . CONTINGENT UPON IF I'M STILL ALIVE TOMORROW MORNING I WANT TO START THIS WEEKEND. SO ALL THOSE INTRESTED SHOULD TALK TO ME AND WE CAN GET GOING.DEADEYE (ROME DODSON SIGN YOUR NAME DAMM IT
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Rome Dodson
- Posts: 385
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:42 am
HAMUCKS
ALL YOU FEMALES ARE THE SAME, YOU WANT TO GET PRONE . ROME
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Rome Dodson
- Posts: 385
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:42 am
HAMUKS
I'LL BET YOU NEVER TRIED IT ON A HAMUCK, SUCKS
NOT THAT I CAN REMEMBER WHAT IT'S LIKE ANYWAY ROME
NOT THAT I CAN REMEMBER WHAT IT'S LIKE ANYWAY ROME
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Rome Dodson
- Posts: 385
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:42 am
ROME'S E MAILS
SOMEONE HAS BEEN TAMPERING WITH MY BUTTONS AND I WANT IT STOPED!!!! I'M PERFLECTLY CAPABLE OF MAKEING A FOOL OF MYSELF, ALL BY MYSELF. THE L.A.P.D. CYBER POLICE ARE LOOKING INTO MY MATTER!!! I AM THE ONLY PILOT WHO CAN DO THIS, IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN. UNHAPPY ROME