As short as I can make it for the news: Brad Hall & Rob Sporrer re-elected for 2010-2012 USHPA Reg. 3 Director positions. Thanks to
all who took the time to participate.
election results
Moderator: Chip
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JT
Congratulations, Rob and Brad! I hope you're not going to gloat. I'd hate to have to heckle you, too.
However, since you've found the SHGA forum, maybe it would be a good idea to tell us what you're up to so we don't have to wonder what we've elected you to represent for us. (Was that convoluted or what?) Rob, and Bob, please feel free to have at, also. Informed decisions are usually more intelligent ones. All of you just leave out the vitriol and repitition.
For my part, I promise to be good.
However, since you've found the SHGA forum, maybe it would be a good idea to tell us what you're up to so we don't have to wonder what we've elected you to represent for us. (Was that convoluted or what?) Rob, and Bob, please feel free to have at, also. Informed decisions are usually more intelligent ones. All of you just leave out the vitriol and repitition.
For my part, I promise to be good.
election results
Thanks JT. No gloat posted. I didn't just find the Sylmar forum. My first post was Apr. 07' letting you all know I am your new RD, and my contact info. I have posted on 8 topics total. I do not have a pressing need to fill up as many forums as possible with opinions or insults. The USHPA BoD meeting minutes are posted for all to see. If there are any questions as to what the natl. org is doing, I am always happy to discuss it with you.
If you need the help of a RD for any USHPA related item or service or complaint, I have been available and busy doing these tasks from day one. I prefer private and friendly discussions and positive actions that do not harm the flying community as a whole. If there is a pressing issue that needs general input, I will ask, and will usually hear about it long before it becomes an issue. I serve on several committees, chair one, and help do the job I was elected to do, serving the USHPA and all pilots in region 3. Glad to help you anytime.
If you need the help of a RD for any USHPA related item or service or complaint, I have been available and busy doing these tasks from day one. I prefer private and friendly discussions and positive actions that do not harm the flying community as a whole. If there is a pressing issue that needs general input, I will ask, and will usually hear about it long before it becomes an issue. I serve on several committees, chair one, and help do the job I was elected to do, serving the USHPA and all pilots in region 3. Glad to help you anytime.
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Bob Kuczewski
- Posts: 660
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:39 am
- Location: San Diego
- Contact:
Re: election results
Hi Brad,
First, let me congratulate you on your victory.
Having said that, I hope you can recognize from this year's vote (Hall-111 to Katz-78) and last year's vote (Kuczewski-122 to Jebb-98) that there are clearly two constituencies who have voted in both years and who would like their views represented at USHPA.
So my question is: How are you going to demonstrate that you will work to help both sides be represented? For example, in San Diego (your home sites) we have the Torrey Pines Soaring Council which only has one local representative for the two sports of hang gliding and paragliding. The local RC clubs are just the opposite - two local representatives for the one sport of RC flying.
We know that one of our local clubs (the SDHGPA) is mostly a paragliding club and they endorsed you, while the other local club (Torrey Hawks) is mostly a hang gliding club and they endorsed Jerry Katz. The SDHGPA currently has a representative on the Council and yet the Hawks do not.
Given that the Soaring Council does not have sufficient representation for our sports, I am specifically asking if you will reach across the aisle to work with me to gain a seat for the Hawks so that the combined HG/PG clubs will at least equal the number of RC clubs on that Council?
I would be very appreciative of your efforts and public statements endorsing that position, and I think that would go a long way toward healing the wounds of our past differences. How about it Brad? Will you work with me toward that goal? I would really welcome your assistance.
Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
First, let me congratulate you on your victory.
Having said that, I hope you can recognize from this year's vote (Hall-111 to Katz-78) and last year's vote (Kuczewski-122 to Jebb-98) that there are clearly two constituencies who have voted in both years and who would like their views represented at USHPA.
So my question is: How are you going to demonstrate that you will work to help both sides be represented? For example, in San Diego (your home sites) we have the Torrey Pines Soaring Council which only has one local representative for the two sports of hang gliding and paragliding. The local RC clubs are just the opposite - two local representatives for the one sport of RC flying.
We know that one of our local clubs (the SDHGPA) is mostly a paragliding club and they endorsed you, while the other local club (Torrey Hawks) is mostly a hang gliding club and they endorsed Jerry Katz. The SDHGPA currently has a representative on the Council and yet the Hawks do not.
Given that the Soaring Council does not have sufficient representation for our sports, I am specifically asking if you will reach across the aisle to work with me to gain a seat for the Hawks so that the combined HG/PG clubs will at least equal the number of RC clubs on that Council?
I would be very appreciative of your efforts and public statements endorsing that position, and I think that would go a long way toward healing the wounds of our past differences. How about it Brad? Will you work with me toward that goal? I would really welcome your assistance.
Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
Brad Hall wrote:Thanks JT. No gloat posted. I didn't just find the Sylmar forum. My first post was Apr. 07' letting you all know I am your new RD, and my contact info. I have posted on 8 topics total. I do not have a pressing need to fill up as many forums as possible with opinions or insults. The USHPA BoD meeting minutes are posted for all to see. If there are any questions as to what the natl. org is doing, I am always happy to discuss it with you.
If you need the help of a RD for any USHPA related item or service or complaint, I have been available and busy doing these tasks from day one. I prefer private and friendly discussions and positive actions that do not harm the flying community as a whole. If there is a pressing issue that needs general input, I will ask, and will usually hear about it long before it becomes an issue. I serve on several committees, chair one, and help do the job I was elected to do, serving the USHPA and all pilots in region 3. Glad to help you anytime.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
View my rating at: USHGRS
Every human at every point in history has an opportunity to choose courage over cowardice. Look around and you'll find that opportunity in your own time.
View my rating at: USHGRS
Every human at every point in history has an opportunity to choose courage over cowardice. Look around and you'll find that opportunity in your own time.
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JT
Bob, I think it's time to give it a rest. Brad has been pretty good about not rising to the bait, anyway. Seriously, you should both come out to Kagel and introduce yourselves to us. Maybe you have and I wasn't there; mea culpa, if that's the case. If worst comes to worst, we could stage a UFC cage fight and settle this for good. I'd just like to see in person, what is at the root of all the animosity. Again, mostly on your part, Bob. In person, you seem to be a pretty nice soul. I'm told the same about Brad. But you totally trashed him in your attacks; I started to think Brad has cloven hooves.
What you all should be concerned about as RDs is that your constituency cares so little about you (and possibly the sport, HG & PG) that the vote count barely exceeds the total membership of the SHGA. I would venture that our club probably turned out because of the attention drawn on the SHGA Forum. It would be interesting to see the postmarks on those ballots.
What you all should be concerned about as RDs is that your constituency cares so little about you (and possibly the sport, HG & PG) that the vote count barely exceeds the total membership of the SHGA. I would venture that our club probably turned out because of the attention drawn on the SHGA Forum. It would be interesting to see the postmarks on those ballots.
Last edited by JT on Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bob Kuczewski
- Posts: 660
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:39 am
- Location: San Diego
- Contact:
Thanks JT. Thanks for the kind words and the advice.
I'd be happy to meet with Brad any time. I think it's time for us to start working together. I think Sylmar would be a good venue. Maybe a little flying and then some discussions about resolving our differences and moving forward.
Brad?
I'd be happy to meet with Brad any time. I think it's time for us to start working together. I think Sylmar would be a good venue. Maybe a little flying and then some discussions about resolving our differences and moving forward.
Brad?
jt wrote:Bob, I think it's time to give it a rest. Brad has been pretty good about not rising to the bait, anyway. Seriously, you should both come out to Kagel and introduce yourselves to us. Maybe you have and I wasn't there; mea culpa, if that's the case. If worst comes to worst, we could stage a UFC cage fight and settle this for good. I'd just like to see in person, what is at the root of all the animosity. Again, mostly on your part, Bob. In person, you seem to be a pretty nice soul. I'm told the same about Brad. But you totally trashed him in your attacks; I started to think Brad has cloven hooves.
What you all should be concerned about as RDs is that your constituency cares so little about you (and possibley the sport, HG & PG) that the vote count barely exceeds the total the membership of the SHGA. I would venture that our club probably turned out because of the attention drawn on the SHGA Forum. It would be interesting to see the postmarks on those ballots.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
View my rating at: USHGRS
Every human at every point in history has an opportunity to choose courage over cowardice. Look around and you'll find that opportunity in your own time.
View my rating at: USHGRS
Every human at every point in history has an opportunity to choose courage over cowardice. Look around and you'll find that opportunity in your own time.
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Bob Kuczewski
- Posts: 660
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:39 am
- Location: San Diego
- Contact:
Brad?
Brad?
Would you like to take JT's suggestion to go out to Kagel to meet with some of their pilots and see if we can find a way to work together?
I'm willing.
Would you like to take JT's suggestion to go out to Kagel to meet with some of their pilots and see if we can find a way to work together?
I'm willing.
Join a National Hang Gliding Organization: US Hawks at ushawks.org
View my rating at: USHGRS
Every human at every point in history has an opportunity to choose courage over cowardice. Look around and you'll find that opportunity in your own time.
View my rating at: USHGRS
Every human at every point in history has an opportunity to choose courage over cowardice. Look around and you'll find that opportunity in your own time.
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Bob Kuczewski
- Posts: 660
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:39 am
- Location: San Diego
- Contact:
OSCAR wrote:Or maybe they can do that I fall backwards and you catch me thingThat would be funny
Thanks OSCAR!!! In addition to a very funny post, you taught me how to reference hanggliding.org Emoticons on the Sylmar forum!!!
So Brad, how about it? How about if we meet at Sylmar some time to address the issues of our members? We can devote one part of it entirely to Sylmar only topics, and then follow that with a "free for all" session where we can hash out Torrey and the EC and the recall and all the other politics? Are you up for it? I am.
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Bob Kuczewski
- Posts: 660
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:39 am
- Location: San Diego
- Contact:
Brad? Brad? Where are you? You were such an "integral" part of the Sylmar community before the election. Where have you gone since then?
Let's meet with the Sylmar club to spend some time talking about their concerns and then hold a separate session for other non-Sylmar issues afterward for anyone interested as well.
Why won't you even respond to that invitation? Is this the "cooperation" that you promised to Joe Greblo to get his support? I told him that I'd be willing to talk with you. But you weren't willing to talk with me. Where's your reciprocity, Brad?
Let's meet with the Sylmar club to spend some time talking about their concerns and then hold a separate session for other non-Sylmar issues afterward for anyone interested as well.
Why won't you even respond to that invitation? Is this the "cooperation" that you promised to Joe Greblo to get his support? I told him that I'd be willing to talk with you. But you weren't willing to talk with me. Where's your reciprocity, Brad?
Bob,
Contrary to your public proclamation, Brad Hall has made no promises to me for my support in the last election. In fact, he didn't even solicit my support. I gave it to him freely when I felt he needed some support from the attacks you'd brought upon him.
Additionally, I supported him because I didn't believe it was in all of our best interests to have someone running solely because they were "recruited" by you to run against an incumbent.
As much as I like Jerry Katz, I didn't feel any candidate, recruited the way he was, would be sufficiently motivated to handle the myriad of Region 3 issues, separate from those at Torrey Pines. This was not meant to disparage Jerry in any way as you know he is a very likable, intelligent, and talented pilot.
I also told you that I thought that Brad had always been, what I considered, an active and responsive Regional Director, that had always graciously involved himself in whatever the Sylmar pilots requested of him.
I find your last post insulting to both Brad Hall and myself. Please don't include my name in your posts in a manner that suggests that I'm a willing participant in this caustic behavior.
Joe
Contrary to your public proclamation, Brad Hall has made no promises to me for my support in the last election. In fact, he didn't even solicit my support. I gave it to him freely when I felt he needed some support from the attacks you'd brought upon him.
Additionally, I supported him because I didn't believe it was in all of our best interests to have someone running solely because they were "recruited" by you to run against an incumbent.
As much as I like Jerry Katz, I didn't feel any candidate, recruited the way he was, would be sufficiently motivated to handle the myriad of Region 3 issues, separate from those at Torrey Pines. This was not meant to disparage Jerry in any way as you know he is a very likable, intelligent, and talented pilot.
I also told you that I thought that Brad had always been, what I considered, an active and responsive Regional Director, that had always graciously involved himself in whatever the Sylmar pilots requested of him.
I find your last post insulting to both Brad Hall and myself. Please don't include my name in your posts in a manner that suggests that I'm a willing participant in this caustic behavior.
Joe
Safety is a book, not a word
Michael Robertson
Michael Robertson
Election results
In reference to Bob Ks posting of the following;
" Is this the "cooperation" that you promised to Joe Greblo to get his support? I told him that I'd be willing to talk with you. But you weren't willing to talk with me. Where's your reciprocity, Brad?"
I started flying Hang gliders in a standard with a swing seat. Even at that early time in the small world of hg pilots, there were a few that stood out above the rest. I could name a half dozen across the country that are still active pilots, and Joe Greblo would be near or at the top of a list of pilots that have EARNED the respect of all other pilots. His flying skills are well known, but I have known some great pilots that were total butt heads. It is the integrity, honesty, demonstrated willingness to help others and the humility of Joe that stand out in my mind. For someone of Bobs ilk to come to Joes home and crap on the carpet is inexcusable. Joe is an icon in this sport and Bob is nothing more than a wanna-be without the credentials to speak on anyone's motives or decisions, especially Joes.
What a truly low-life remark. It says a lot about Bob the person.
" Is this the "cooperation" that you promised to Joe Greblo to get his support? I told him that I'd be willing to talk with you. But you weren't willing to talk with me. Where's your reciprocity, Brad?"
I started flying Hang gliders in a standard with a swing seat. Even at that early time in the small world of hg pilots, there were a few that stood out above the rest. I could name a half dozen across the country that are still active pilots, and Joe Greblo would be near or at the top of a list of pilots that have EARNED the respect of all other pilots. His flying skills are well known, but I have known some great pilots that were total butt heads. It is the integrity, honesty, demonstrated willingness to help others and the humility of Joe that stand out in my mind. For someone of Bobs ilk to come to Joes home and crap on the carpet is inexcusable. Joe is an icon in this sport and Bob is nothing more than a wanna-be without the credentials to speak on anyone's motives or decisions, especially Joes.
What a truly low-life remark. It says a lot about Bob the person.
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Bob Kuczewski
- Posts: 660
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:39 am
- Location: San Diego
- Contact:
Request for Help
Joe,
Prior to the election, I asked you to get some kind of commitment of cooperation from Brad before you gave him your endorsement. I cautioned that if you didn't get such a commitment before giving him your endorsement you'd never get it afterward.
Now we see the results. JT invited both of us to come to Sylmar, and I welcomed that invitation. I suggested that we could hold some discussions on two classes of issues - those relating to Sylmar and those relating to other sites. Those pilots interested in either sets of issues could attend either session or not. You've seen Brad's response.
I'm sorry Joe, but you endorsed Brad, and now I have to deal with him for the rest of my term. You can turn your back and request to be left out of it, but that doesn't help to resolve this conflict. Brad used your name and endorsement on the SDHGPA forum back in October, and in that same posting he called me a liar and deluded. I'm sorry but I missed your post of protest on that one.
Joe, before the election you had a perfect opportunity to help resolve these problems. That opportunity is no longer quite so perfect, but it still exists. I am asking for your help.
Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
Prior to the election, I asked you to get some kind of commitment of cooperation from Brad before you gave him your endorsement. I cautioned that if you didn't get such a commitment before giving him your endorsement you'd never get it afterward.
Now we see the results. JT invited both of us to come to Sylmar, and I welcomed that invitation. I suggested that we could hold some discussions on two classes of issues - those relating to Sylmar and those relating to other sites. Those pilots interested in either sets of issues could attend either session or not. You've seen Brad's response.
I'm sorry Joe, but you endorsed Brad, and now I have to deal with him for the rest of my term. You can turn your back and request to be left out of it, but that doesn't help to resolve this conflict. Brad used your name and endorsement on the SDHGPA forum back in October, and in that same posting he called me a liar and deluded. I'm sorry but I missed your post of protest on that one.
Joe, before the election you had a perfect opportunity to help resolve these problems. That opportunity is no longer quite so perfect, but it still exists. I am asking for your help.
Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
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addicted2climbing
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:50 pm
