I'm sorry!
We should be capable in handling our own finances.
New storage tubes
Moderator: Chip
Who is "we"?
The problem with "we", is that SOMEONE has to do it.
Jay has this job because he submitted the "low bid" years ago when NOBODY would do it. I believe his low bid was 10% of the gross proceeds.
Anyway, since the topic of the storage boxes is hot right now, I suggest we get lots of suggestions and I also hope that we get lots of attendance at next week's (Thursday) meeting. We can make this the first topic if it gets people to show up that don't want to stay for the whole meeting.
The problem with "we", is that SOMEONE has to do it.
Jay has this job because he submitted the "low bid" years ago when NOBODY would do it. I believe his low bid was 10% of the gross proceeds.
Anyway, since the topic of the storage boxes is hot right now, I suggest we get lots of suggestions and I also hope that we get lots of attendance at next week's (Thursday) meeting. We can make this the first topic if it gets people to show up that don't want to stay for the whole meeting.
With respect to “We�, I’m referring to the club as a whole. I do not think that 2% should go to someone else outside the club.
Jay seems to understand the process well, if not better then anyone else, but I would like to know what his job consists of?
What ever it is, the 10% we pay him doesn't seem to be enough.
Jay seems to understand the process well, if not better then anyone else, but I would like to know what his job consists of?
What ever it is, the 10% we pay him doesn't seem to be enough.
Last edited by Busto on Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Before Jay is alienated by the conversation regarding his compensation for a job well done, it would be appropriate to investigate whether there is any interest in competing with the current contract.
If there is sufficient desire to spend one's time sending out collection notices, visiting the treasurer or the bank, tracking collections, chasing down deadbeats, sorry Ken, I mean "free-loading cheapskates", membership verification (keep in mind that Jay manages the membership for free, also) and tracking openings and exchanges, that person or persons should speak up. Given enough interest, the board may initiate a Request For Proposal (RFP), the same process which decided the issue many years ago.
I was at that meeting when the board member who had spent "SO MUCH TIME" managing the one box (she took over mid-year for the former manager, also paid a percentage and left the club) she spent an hour whining that she wasn't paid to do it. Jay's was the only porposal submitted.
If someone wants to do it for FREE... As Rob says, stand up or shut up. He can appoint you as a Director-at-Large, so you'll at least have a vote.
If there is sufficient desire to spend one's time sending out collection notices, visiting the treasurer or the bank, tracking collections, chasing down deadbeats, sorry Ken, I mean "free-loading cheapskates", membership verification (keep in mind that Jay manages the membership for free, also) and tracking openings and exchanges, that person or persons should speak up. Given enough interest, the board may initiate a Request For Proposal (RFP), the same process which decided the issue many years ago.
I was at that meeting when the board member who had spent "SO MUCH TIME" managing the one box (she took over mid-year for the former manager, also paid a percentage and left the club) she spent an hour whining that she wasn't paid to do it. Jay's was the only porposal submitted.
If someone wants to do it for FREE... As Rob says, stand up or shut up. He can appoint you as a Director-at-Large, so you'll at least have a vote.
Jay has survived being vetted before. If you look at his track record he has done a good job. The club has money to build a pavilion thanks to his collecting. Jay has organized and motivated volunteers to repair the doors, humanly trap and remove the injured feral cat and expensively treat it and found it a home. He has also pointed out the rust problem that needs to be addressed. Jay also enters national competitions and has spent sizable portion of his earnings on hang glider(s). He has a continuous presence at the LZ. He hasn't run off to another country with the years earnings. Sometimes when defense contractors accept bids they choose a more expensive bid or go with a proven vendor for a critical function. Jay has experience in computerization and its always nice to receive a stamped envelope making it easier to send in a vote or payment.
By reading the entire post, I saw a lot of interests in the pricing and the availability of the storage. I did not see anybody who tried to challenge Jay’s position and therefore, tried to compete with him. The questions about what he does and how much he makes were out of one’s curiosity, and were induced by one member’s comment “The GURU receives a percentage of the gross income.� I see those questions reasonable.
Being a new member and only having participated in the Gazebo project, paying a member to do work was a surprise to me. I was told that the club does not pay it’s own members for anything. Even I was curious about this. Now that it was explained that a proposal was presented to the club for things nobody wanted to do, it made sense.
I also did not see where Rob said, “stand up or shut up�. Can someone point out where Rob said this? The club members should be able to ask any questions to the Board without feeling intimidated or stupid.
Whether the club deals with the storage on-line or manually, it still requires a member to manage it. It is a tedious job and Jay has experience of doing it. Experience goes a long way; this goes without saying.
Being a new member and only having participated in the Gazebo project, paying a member to do work was a surprise to me. I was told that the club does not pay it’s own members for anything. Even I was curious about this. Now that it was explained that a proposal was presented to the club for things nobody wanted to do, it made sense.
I also did not see where Rob said, “stand up or shut up�. Can someone point out where Rob said this? The club members should be able to ask any questions to the Board without feeling intimidated or stupid.
Whether the club deals with the storage on-line or manually, it still requires a member to manage it. It is a tedious job and Jay has experience of doing it. Experience goes a long way; this goes without saying.
It is worth the price!
Maybe I was misunderstood 
I in no way wanted to imply that I felt that the fee paid to the Storage Box Guru (currently Jay) was excessive or an unnecessary expense. I just wanted to "correct" Jay's "typo" that could have been misunderstood to mean that the position was strickly volunteer work.
HELL - I've been trying to "bribe" Jay with potato chips for nearly two years to get a better location - with no luck!
I in no way wanted to imply that I felt that the fee paid to the Storage Box Guru (currently Jay) was excessive or an unnecessary expense. I just wanted to "correct" Jay's "typo" that could have been misunderstood to mean that the position was strickly volunteer work.
HELL - I've been trying to "bribe" Jay with potato chips for nearly two years to get a better location - with no luck!
In all honesty the “volunteer� quip wasn’t a typo. It was more like an over generalization from a limited sample size. I do two jobs: storage manager and membership manager.
As storage manager I receive 10% of the gross and free glider storage. With two boxes that amounts to $150/mo. My overhead is postage, printing costs, computer costs, software costs, incidental costs like occasional lock replacement. There was the one time cost of humane cat removal which was more than $750. That last one was mostly reimbursed through Janyce’s superb fund raising efforts. I wanted to reward her with a hug and a kiss but she was too smart to accept. Once the city tried to make me get a business license and pay a tax because I got paid. I wrote a rebuttal letter pointing out the small pay and the Club’s “Not for Profit� tax classification along with their Tax ID. I have not heard back. I do include the money as earned income on my tax statements. Storage Manger is (as far as I know) the only paid position. The reason for that is so that I can be fired if I don’t cut the mustard. There is an opinion floating about (not mine) that the manager should be paid more and be required to take more responsibility. For examples: replacing the doors when they fell off (Big Mike did that). Or, pricing and obtaining new tubes for the pavilion (Rob did that). Or, removing the rust and repainting (no one has done that). Should anybody be interested in taking on the responsibility they should submit a proposal. My management style is casual and the Board might entertain a different approach. A previous manager did receive one threat of violence for impounding a glider when payment wasn’t received.
As membership manager I receive no money. Postage is reimbursed by the club. I still pay the printing and computer costs.
Certainly the members deserve to know the incidentals. I have not provided them as such because I have a loose accounting method. My apologies for any offence. Don, I appreciate the bribing thing but I cannot bring myself give club perks for personal gain. Perhaps I would mow the lawn for you?
As storage manager I receive 10% of the gross and free glider storage. With two boxes that amounts to $150/mo. My overhead is postage, printing costs, computer costs, software costs, incidental costs like occasional lock replacement. There was the one time cost of humane cat removal which was more than $750. That last one was mostly reimbursed through Janyce’s superb fund raising efforts. I wanted to reward her with a hug and a kiss but she was too smart to accept. Once the city tried to make me get a business license and pay a tax because I got paid. I wrote a rebuttal letter pointing out the small pay and the Club’s “Not for Profit� tax classification along with their Tax ID. I have not heard back. I do include the money as earned income on my tax statements. Storage Manger is (as far as I know) the only paid position. The reason for that is so that I can be fired if I don’t cut the mustard. There is an opinion floating about (not mine) that the manager should be paid more and be required to take more responsibility. For examples: replacing the doors when they fell off (Big Mike did that). Or, pricing and obtaining new tubes for the pavilion (Rob did that). Or, removing the rust and repainting (no one has done that). Should anybody be interested in taking on the responsibility they should submit a proposal. My management style is casual and the Board might entertain a different approach. A previous manager did receive one threat of violence for impounding a glider when payment wasn’t received.
As membership manager I receive no money. Postage is reimbursed by the club. I still pay the printing and computer costs.
Certainly the members deserve to know the incidentals. I have not provided them as such because I have a loose accounting method. My apologies for any offence. Don, I appreciate the bribing thing but I cannot bring myself give club perks for personal gain. Perhaps I would mow the lawn for you?
eat right, exercise, die anyway!
So were we paying this woman in handling the one box?
If so, what was the percentage?
Did her "whining" bring any change on the structure of how we handle the position now?
If we were not paying her, then she obviously had a reason to bring the issue up with the board.
I think that someone with Jay's personality is another reason he holds the position. It's like looking for a needle in a hay stack.
If so, what was the percentage?
Did her "whining" bring any change on the structure of how we handle the position now?
If we were not paying her, then she obviously had a reason to bring the issue up with the board.
I think that someone with Jay's personality is another reason he holds the position. It's like looking for a needle in a hay stack.
The first manger got 20% and took more responsibilty like fixing the roof on the old box when it leaked. The second manager handled two boxes and got 25%. I took over after her and proposed 10% and free glider storage. On the pavilion storage Rob will get free glider storage until the money he fronted is recuped. I have declined the 10% of Rob's money.
eat right, exercise, die anyway!
Jay,
For those of us that have a spot on the new containers, can we pay in advance...like now?
I think the position was more than she could handle.
I hate to use the word "whining", but twenty-five percent.
For those of us that have a spot on the new containers, can we pay in advance...like now?
I think the position was more than she could handle.
I hate to use the word "whining", but twenty-five percent.
Last edited by Busto on Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bribes Won't Work ?
First - I guess I might as well stop bringing potato chips if it isn't going to do me any good.jdevorak wrote:... I appreciate the bribing thing but I cannot bring myself give club perks for personal gain. Perhaps I would mow the lawn for you?
On a more serious note - it's nice to know that you have integrity - not that I ever questioned your integrity. In the corporate world it is called Governance and Transparency.Second - I didn't know that you incurred actual out-of-pocket expenses (besides "soft costs" like computer use) - I just assumed that the expenses were reimbursed by the Club.
Third - I doubt the Club will have many people willing to take on the job for the financial gain
. The only one(s) that might be interested are the same ones that think you can make money making trips up to launch for $15 or $20. Jay,Once the city tried to make me get a business license and pay a tax because I got paid. I wrote a rebuttal letter pointing out the small pay and the Club’s “Not for Profit� tax classification along with their Tax ID. I have not heard back. I do include the money as earned income on my tax statements.
I'd suggest that you file the business tax with the city. If I understand it right, the tax would be waived if you made less than 100K annually. Reporting to the Federal and the State was how the city found out about your income. It is not worth fighting and the penalty is heavy. I learned it the hard way.
Pi-Hsuan
I'm not promising, because time is short and shit happens, but I might be able to bring out the new storage tube support grid with lockable doors and hopefully the large outer door as well, and a small flashing piece to keep water from flowing down the front.
I hope to build it all tomorrow and Friday, and since it's made of a lot of regular steel, it will need heavy paint. I hope to paint it late Friday and bring it Saturday morning.
Assuming it all works, - it's not even really figured out yet - we may have storage available by Sunday.
I will need some help installing it:
1) We need to use a pneumatic hammer to chip away some of the concrete hanging down - pretty easy. I will bring the tools, and am assuming we will have the compressor there working?
2) There will be drilling of pilot holes in the concrete for attaching the frame, door and flashing. I will bring the tools.
3) We will need probably 3 guys to maneuver the stuff into place and install it.
This should all go pretty quick with 3 guys or even better 2 ladies, me and beer.
I hope to do this Saturday, but I can't be sure until mid-day Friday if I'm gonna make it. I'll post here in this thread as soon as I know if I can make it or not.
I hope to build it all tomorrow and Friday, and since it's made of a lot of regular steel, it will need heavy paint. I hope to paint it late Friday and bring it Saturday morning.
Assuming it all works, - it's not even really figured out yet - we may have storage available by Sunday.
I will need some help installing it:
1) We need to use a pneumatic hammer to chip away some of the concrete hanging down - pretty easy. I will bring the tools, and am assuming we will have the compressor there working?
2) There will be drilling of pilot holes in the concrete for attaching the frame, door and flashing. I will bring the tools.
3) We will need probably 3 guys to maneuver the stuff into place and install it.
This should all go pretty quick with 3 guys or even better 2 ladies, me and beer.
I hope to do this Saturday, but I can't be sure until mid-day Friday if I'm gonna make it. I'll post here in this thread as soon as I know if I can make it or not.
Flyyyyy