Ramp Feedback wanted

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greblo
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Ramp Feedback wanted

Post by greblo »

There are a number of pilots that have been contributing to the design of the new launch ramp and we feel we don't yet have it designed the way that most pilots will like it. After rounding the top last weekend, we received a lot of positive responses. Today in relatively windy and gusty conditions, we have more than one request to reduce the steepness to make it easier to ground handle in stronger winds and gusts.

This change could be made next week.

We're asking you as a pilot to provide your feedback on how you like the current launch ramp and what you think would make it better for you.

If you fly this weekend, we'd like to hear what you have to say. The goal to have a launch ramp that is easier and safer for everyone. We welcome your comments.

Please comment in any way you you like including this forum, email, phone or in person to any of the following persons...... Joe Greblo, Hungary Joe, Vrezh, Greg Kendall, Fred Ballard, Phil Bloom, Ron Keinan.
Safety is a book, not a word
Michael Robertson
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JD
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Post by JD »

Thanks to everyone who worked on this project. Here's my 2p worth:

I flew today and found the ramp to be unsafe for both the launching pilot and for a nose wire assistant. There is no safe way to get a glider's nose into the airflow without either getting involuntarily airborne or sending a nose wire helper tumbling down the hillside.

Additionally, the rubber mat is a snag hazard and can cause either a pilot to trip and stumble or a streamlined control bar to snag.

I would appreciate it if the ramp were rounded off to the point that either a lone pilot can ease his glider into the airflow without getting launched or a wire assistant won't get sent tumbling down the hillside.

Please remove anything that can possible snag a control bar or cause a pilot to stumble. It is not unusual for a lone pilot to get left on launch w/ no ride down and no one to give a wire assist while the winds are increasing.

Everyone's efforts are greatly appreciated who contributed to the transformation of the launch and setup area. Keep up the good work!
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Jim
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Post by Jim »

Great set up area! I like the widened parking on the East slope. Launch was fine, too. Cathy had no problem with my wire assist and new height adds confidence. Apparently, the edge is already beginning to round off. The rubber pad is a real improvement for those with carbon base tubes. The Hook-In pad did snag my heel when I walked backwards to assist a few pilots. I guess I just need to look behind me as I walk. I'm sure the sign will wear down into the surface, in time. Great work! When is the water truck coming up?
filthy
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Post by filthy »

The rubber mat, got pulled up by the tractor on the 2nd trip up to rework the ramp. If anyone has a larger rubber mat that we can use please step up. I'd like to cover about 12" of the edge in dirt, to keep it from being something to trip on.
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Steve90266
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New Ramp

Post by Steve90266 »

I did not notice an appreciable difference in ground handling on Saturday, the 20th of April.

I liked the steeper run. It encourages a more aggressive launch run.

Nice work, but if pilots continue to report ground handling problems, then perhaps rounding out the top and creating a more laminar flow is the answer.
Steve Murillo
jcflies
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Post by jcflies »

May the record clearly reflect that my ABORTED (not blown) LAUNCH had nothing to do with the recent slope modifications, and everything to do with the fact that I've only flown twice (including yesterday) in the past three months. There was this surreal moment, right after I said, "Clear!" when it occurred to me that, in a few seconds I'd be suspended from an aluminum toy, 2000 feet above the ground. I took a step, shouted, "NO!" and dropped my glider. I apologize to my wire crew, because I could have hurt them in the process. After I pitched a tizzy, issued a Mitch-approved stream of invective, pulled out hair, and spit, I flew.

Moral of story? Launch modifications are FINE, and I, personally, need to fly at least once a week to maintain sanity and keep my skills sharp.

(I posted this here, because it isn't really a "Safety and Incidents in FLIGHT" issue, and the mods. to launch are a hot topic right now.)
janyce

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MikeL
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Post by MikeL »

launched it sat and sun. Had no issues, although I was willing to take my time to wait for a perfect headwind -- didn't want to try any funny business with anything even slightly cross. Got off the hill pretty quickly both times with a nice headwind. Granted I feel like that's how it was even before the modifications. YMMV.

"Diabetic Mike"
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Vrezh
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Post by Vrezh »

The rubber mat, got pulled up by the tractor on the 2nd trip up to rework the ramp. If anyone has a larger rubber mat that we can use please step up. I'd like to cover about 12" of the edge in dirt, to keep it from being something to trip on.
Since you brought it up... filthy:-)
I liked the idea of a hang check "pad", and even more so because of our
CF base bars.
If it has to be a rubber, then by all means we have to get the kind, that
has textured or corrugated surface.
The smooth surface mat we have now is proven to be counter effective.
Even a tiny sprinkle of dirt on it's surface makes you feel like on rollerblades.
The other "carpet pad" is actually safer.
Maybe it's worth trying also a fully synthetic grassy looking outdoor carpet.

P.S. ??what 50+ man calls himself filthy:-)??
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skygeek AKA Seabass
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Post by skygeek AKA Seabass »

Does this answer your question?[url]Image
dteal
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Post by dteal »

I flew on Sunday and it was windy on launch. It was difficult to get the glider stable - felt like something was pushing down on the keel/tail. I've never felt that at Kagel before. Clearly, I didn't have my angle of attack right, but it was strange for sure. I also didn't care for the dust and dirt that ended up in my teeth when the person in front of me launched and the wire help cleared out of the way. Note to self: keep mouth shut until ready to launch.
DT
MikeL
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Post by MikeL »

After flying a few days ago, my above opinion has changed rather drastically from "it's great!" to "ground handling at the edge requires a full wire crew plus a rope for the nose wire person." The left wing was getting pushed up (compression zone) and the changes seemed to cause ramp suck.

Hardcore Diabetic Mike
greblo
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Post by greblo »

Thanks guys for all the help. There has been some consistent feedback that has enabled us to make some changes we hope will make the ramp much better. The top has been rounded off a lot, the slope on the left was decreased and a lot of dirt was added to the low spot on bottom right.
Please keep the input coming after this weekends flying.
Safety is a book, not a word
Michael Robertson
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