The New Kagel Launch - Safe, Neutral, or Unsafe?

[Steve90266]

Ladies and Gents,

I've been hearing a lot of comments and critiques from pilots regarding the new launch at Kagel. Some say it's too steep and there's a twist to it. Some say they like the steepness. Others are neutral about it.

I'd like to use this forum to get your opinion. Please participate.

[Vrezh]

Sorry, Steve, don't think this is a good idea.

[Steve90266]

I can appreciate your opinion, Vrezh.

Nonetheless, I think it is important to gather a general, anonymous poll to see what the club is thinking about the new ramp and the launch conditions it presents.

The ramp was made steeper, which is better for the blades in no to low wind conditions, but could be creating problems for the lower performance and entry level gliders.

Let's see what the club thinks.

[dhmartens]

I like the raised left part of the launch because in the past two times I have had to run down that side when hit by turbulence right when I start my run. The way it is now there is less chance to catch a wingtip on brush should I have to run that direction again.

JT and I had a conversation about the putting a launch on top of a chimney when the top of a spine was near by. But then again this launch has a good 20-30 year record.

After the rains hit we can try an airflow test. The launch conditions could now be caused by brush growth since that is no longer a constant since the launch was altered.

The safest launch would be engineered to rotate on a turret and with selectable ramp curvature with a hydraulic system.

Before it was smoothed some I saw some comp gliders with wiremen that were not happy with the robust conditions.

[gregangsten]

Before you conclude that it is worse, perhaps you should wait until you do some low or no wind launches in the fall and winter. These always bothered me more than high wind and I don't think there is any question that the launch is better in that regard.

[vannoppen]

My recent track record for launches is'nt that great, sorry in fact but I agree w Greg in that steeper is better, probably in all conditions. Angles of the ramp matter relative to the wind direction so until the forest service allows us to put in the robotic ramp I believe this is great but will take some getting used to . my two cents.

[jcflies]

The launch seems fine to me, and I'm probably (for someone who flies regularly) the biggest wimp known to hang gliding. (That is to say, it's NOT the launch, it's the PILOT and his/her skills and/or psychology--remarkably similar to landing...) IF you know yourself and your limitations, then you are probably going to launch quite well, no matter where you are!

[chadness]

(one - size - better)
yep. I think a bigger launch ramp (traverses more elevation) is better. I'm sure I won't get any disagreement on that. The new ramp is bigger. But the top height, steepness and shape are very important too.

(two - top height - neutral)
I agree that the elevated top height forces a little more airflow around a glider (more venturi) on launch in higher winds (which we have been having lately). But on light wind days, when they come, this extra height of the ramp will be greatly appreciated.

(three - steepness - better)
I believe the ramp is steeper (on average) and built more up and above the natural mountain shape. I think both of these things are good too. Steepness allows a pilot to accelerate to usable airspeeds in a shorter amount of time (good) and being more "away from the hill" gives you cleaner air with more allowable roll error (good).

(four - shape - worse)
The shape of the ramp seems more concave near the bottom. I think flat or slightly convex is better. One way to fix this would be to add more dirt to the middle of the ramp.

So overall, I think the ramp is better.

[JD]

....
(three - steepness - better)
I believe the ramp is steeper (on average) and built more up and above the natural mountain shape. I think both of these things are good too. Steepness allows a pilot to accelerate to usable airspeeds in a shorter amount of time (good) and being more "away from the hill" gives you cleaner air with more allowable roll error (good)....

Steepness at the top will result in both a series of blown launches in nil wind and accidents in high winds. The ramp needs to be shaped more like a quarter cylinder where it is much shallower at the top and much steeper at the bottom.

Current flat-steep ramp shape:

In nil wind - pilots who launch from ramps that start out too steep at the top often have their angle of attach too high when they start their launch run (trot, shuffle leap) and become airborne at or below the MCA (minimum controllable airspeed) then are prone to getting turned back into the hillside while fully or partially stalled.

In high wind - nose wire assistants must choke up very close to the control bar and lose their ability to help yaw the glider to assist the pilot in keeping wings level.

Quarter-cylinder shape:

In nil wind - pilot accelerates gradually and does not become airborne at the steep portion until they have had time to gain airspeed and a chance to adjust angle of attack.

In high wind - nose wire assistant is safely able to stand farther out toward the nose which gives more leverage to help yaw the glider and more room to escape. Furthermore the airflow over the quarter-cylinder is much smoother and more predictable than the current flat-steep configuration with sharp bend at top.

There are many more reasons than I have stated above but if you look at the carefully engineered wooden ramps of the world they tend to be semi cylindrical in shape. Could there be a reason for this added complexity?

Obviously there are pilots in the club who can handle any ramp configuration but why add stress to an already critical aspect of flight when altering the shape of an Earthen ramp is readily within our reach?