SEATBELTS ISSUE. DAMMIT!! PLEASE EVERYBODY READ THIS!!

[cgemme]

I've got to say this out of love for all of you. Ready?

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH EVERYBODY!!!!!

I'm frankly quite amazed and in disbelief at just how foreign the idea of wearing seat belts is to so many of you pilots. To the point that I get attitudes thrown at me when I suggest that I would like a seat with a seatbelt.

It's just absurd and kinda hypocritical that in a community of so many adults who seem to be so concerned with "safety safety safety" there's so much disregard for this.

This is not just in response to todays problem. This has been going on since I started 16 years ago.

I may be the first person to mention this but I'm willing to bet I'm not the first person to feel this way. Perhaps particularly some younger new pilots who don't want to "rock the boat" and piss off a truckload of pilots by bringing the truck to a screeching halt and delay everybody as everybody has to get out so the seats can be lifted up so the belts can be fished out.

That was actually my first experience 16 years ago. And yes, I got the same looks and attitudes as I seem to get almost every time since then.

Including today.

I seem to always drive into the parking lot with a little knot in my stomach from the realization that this may be another day I have to deal with the "attitude" thing. That's not a pleasant feeling to have to have just before I try to enjoy myself.

Absolutely nobody ever should be made to feel like that for a simple reasonable request of a seatbelt.

I hope this post will make an actual lasting difference.

Thanks for listening. Dammit!

[OP]

I reserve the right not to wear a seat belt. V.C. 27315.

I've heard they are made of "chemicals" and chemicals have been linked to autism. Also i'm pretty sure seat belts caused my case of adult onset diarrhea.

[gregangsten]

I think most people, like me, generally wear a seatbelt whenever we ride in a car. But jammed into the back seat with 3 or 4 others, it usually takes 5 minutes and a crowbar for me just to find my wallet to pay up. Digging out a seatbelt and actually getting it on in there would probably bring charges of sexual harassment so sometimes I pass.

I think you should stick to your guns and get a seat with a belt, and we should make sure that the belts are available back there in our cars as well. But don't fret too much about me if once a week, I jam myself in and don't pass up a ride because there aren't enough belts. Hell, most of the time I'm on a motorcycle and I haven't been able to find a seat belt on there yet.

[mrobin604]

I always wear my seat belt in my car.

I will only wear one in a glider truck if I'm in front or there's not 4 people in the row with me... you take up too much room with a seat belt on to fit 4 people.

If you want to wear a seat belt and you're not making it hard to fit pilots into the truck, I say go for it, and the hell with the haters.

[Jim]

Just a suggestion: Anyone who desires a seat with a seat belt to ride to launch should make it clear when they request a ride that they will not accept a seat without restraints before they get in the vehicle. Most of us PROVIDING THE MEANS TO ARRIVE AT LAUNCH are usually very accommodating but tend to take up as many pilots as wish to cram into our vehicle. This is, usually, more than the number of actual seating positions with restraints (and we do not do it for the money; you, who know me, know what I'm saying).

We could, as a result of such requests, provide for fewer pilots, which would, of course, increase the lucky ones safety but fewer will fly (those will be even safer!).

In any case, I certainly would not appreciate in transit histrionics that would leave my driver and the remaining passengers feeling as if we could be responsible for precipitating a personality melt-down occurring as a result of another passenger's unannounced needs not being met while on the way.

Believe me, it isn't worth the $10.

[JD]

....in transit histrionics....

Could we please leave my X/C radio usage out of this?

[cgemme]

Jim, I assume you were the driver the other day. I did actually appreciate the inexpensive price for the ride you offered and I would indeed consider that a favor in that you probably made just enough to cover gas and break even. However if that kind of favor comes with a bunch of attitude flung at me from all directions then the favor just doesn't feel like a favor anymore. And so you have a better understanding how I felt and why the other day, let me remind you of the back story I mentioned in my first post and explain a bit more about the other day.

Apparently you weren't aware of this when you started driving but, before we left, I actually went into the back seat and dug up BOTH sets of seat belts. One for me and as long as I was there I figured I'd dig up the other one also, either for somebody else of for me if I found myself on the other side before we left. It took about 30 seconds.

I didn't know how many people were planning on riding in the truck at this point, but I had my spot and seatbelt so how could I go wrong? right?

I sat in the back on the right side with my seat belt ready, the other pilot (sorry I forget his name) of the left. Chris wanted to get in the back too and asked why I wasn't offering to move over to the center. I mentioned I just wanted to have a seatbelt. She said "well, I want to have one too" so being the pushover I am, I slide over to the center and now think to myself despite my efforts it's happening again, I've got no seatbelt.

The pilot on the left was not planning on using his so I asked If he would mind switching places with me to which he responded "no, I don't want to sit in the middle". Now Chris hearing this offered to switch with me which now I can't do because now I already know that she wants a belt too, now SHE'LL be without one just because the pilot on the left doesn't have the courtesy to offer his seat since he's not going to use his belt anyway. So there's a perfectly good seatbelt going to waste while he's content to let one of the two of us go without. I ask him again to please consider switching, and ask if you could pull over for just a minute to make the switch hoping he might feel a little more pressure to just switch seats. Chris responds to ME with "this isn't how you get rides up to launch". as if it's ME whose being unreasonable for requesting a seatbelt as opposed to the pilot on the left being unreasonable for making an unused seatbelt unavailable.

And then you chime in, apparently now knowing the the belts are already accessible, something to the effect of "you're never going to find them down there so just forget about it"

So,
1. from Chris I get the message that requesting a seatbelt or asking to switch seats with somebody who is not using theirs is "not a way to get rides up to launch"

2. I get from the pilot on my left that he'd rather let me or Chris go without rather than have to move to the middle.

3. And I finally get from you that you don't want to bother fishing the seatbelts out and I just shouldn't be concerned with wearing one.

This same kind of thing has happened multiple times before, and I did everything I could think of a few days ago to try to prevent it from happening again, Yet it still happened and was totally unnecessary. That's why I got so pissed. If I had stuck to my guns and made Chris sit in the middle with no belt, I'd feel like a jerk and would feel even worse if I had to watch her fly through the windshield.

So yes, the three of you should rightfully feel responsible for my reaction. Sorry, but I did NOT dream up this story.

It's really very simple, I'd just like to wear a seat and not get crap when I try to find one to put on. It just shouldn't be this complicated.

[Jim]

I wasn't going to spend my time relaying the entire event, making you out to be, shall we say, excited about Kris' comment. I pretty much shut off the noise in the back to drive. But I think you left out something.

You may also recall that I asked Kris to accommodate you by switching seats, which she attempted to no avail. Had you not already been agitated by her request to move, so she wouldn't have to climb over you to enter the back seat, you may have realized that she wasn't serious about needing a belt and was perfectly willing to trade with you; it was obvious to everyone by this time that you had issues.

While you were spouting your 16 years' worth of fear and anger at everyone in the truck (my wife so enjoys such drama!), I suppose you didn't hear me as I asked my wife to switch with you so you would have the better restraints in the front seat. When I stopped the car she moved the back seat forward for you, at which time, you simply scampered away down the street.

I immediately returned your equipment to the LZ and my wife left your $10 with Jay to reimburse you. You're welcome.

I understand the desire to have restraints. I have never driven without them except when they didn't exist. But most pilots would rather get up the hill than not, given a choice to ride without a restraint. I understand you're not in that group and my original suggestion stills stands. Make it clear to the driver before you accept a ride that you will not go up without a belt. You may have to make that clear to all the riders. Don't get in the vehicle, if one is not available. And don't get in the vehicle and have a hissy-fit because someone thinks your position is extreme given the paucity of available rides.

[cgemme]

I really don't have any more time after this to keep going back and forth. But I think it is good to talk about this including the specifics so this kind of thing doesn't happen again. At some point we'll be at the clubhouse and the campfire and neither of us wants to feel uncomfortable around each other. I'm sure you've had these uncomfortable moments before. We all have. I didn't want to have a 45 minute ride up to launch feeling like this. Please read thoroughly so I don't have to explain things multiple times.

I thought my prior posts would explain why my fuse appeared to be so short to those who didn't know where I was coming from. But I'm still getting very belittling comments from you like:
"in transit HISTRIONICS", "a PERSONALITY MELT-DOWN", "EXCITED about Kris' comment", "SPOUTING your 16 years' worth of fear and anger", "SCAMPERED away", "have a HISSY-FIT".
So you either have not fully read and understood my prior posts, or you have, and simply don't share the degree of concern for what I'm talking about, and you think I'm just over-reacting. But please have the courtesy to not belittle me for being upset about how I feel I was treated. Especially since I keep explaining why.

I relayed the entire event because, based on your belittling comments, it seemed you didn't understand what actually transpiring.
I know Chris offered to switch seats. I explained in my last post why I didn't take her up on her offer. Did you not read my explanation? For that same reason I don't think I would have taken your wife's offer either. I actually didn't know she offered. Apparently she pulled the seat forward just when I finally got fed up and said "just let me out". I figured she was letting me out.

I got no indication from Chris that she really did NOT want to wear a seat belt. I know she was willing to trade. So was I. We both felt bad about depriving someone of a seatbelt who wanted to wear one. The thing that was making me so mad at this point was the pilot on the left preventing anybody from using his available belt that he wasn't going to use; Chris telling me that I'm out of line for asking him if we could switch; your comment (which I'll assume I quoted accurately enough since you didn't correct me), basically saying "Just forget about it". That just said to me that you'd rather have me or Chris just not wear them because it would be too hard to pull over to fish them out. I realize at this point you didn't know that they were already fished out, and it was just that the pilot on the left simply wasn't offering. But the last comment I heard from you was to the effect that I should forget about it. And that was my last straw. At that point, even if I did get a belt without depriving your wife or Chris, the last thing I felt like doing for the next 45 minutes was sitting in a car where three people are giving me vibes like I was unreasonable, and then trying to have a fun time flying.

I actually have a pretty darn long fuse. It's just that it's gotten used up, and I'm being as nice as I can without watering this down. Will you PLEEEASE try to understand where I'm coming from.

Thank you.

[Jim]

I understand everything you're saying and your frustration. That is the only excuse for making everyone in my truck uncomfortable with your outburst. And you do have the order wrong: you began as a result of Kris' little quip. I was privately thankful for her having the temerity to say SOMETHING; I just didn't ever think it would elicit the response it did.

Sorry that most of my adjectives are subjective but your continued attacks which are, after all, driven by your self-centered perspective, are pissing me off.

I don't expect anything from you at this point except, as a gentleman, an apology to my wife for making her feel so very uncomfortable, especially, since she only participated as my, always, very accommodating driver. Although, not for you, ever again.

See you at the fire pit.

[JD]

And the moral of the story is to always exercise 'restraint'. Bada bump. I'm here all week and don't forget to tip your waitress.

[jcflies]

I should probably keep my @*(^5(@*$& mouth shut, but I can't help myself.

If you are lucky enough to be part of the LEAST EXPENSIVE ride to launch, with one of the NICEST DRIVERS, ever (except for Kat Shaw and Nancy), and you are going to pitch yourself off a 3540' mountain on a contraption made of ALUMINUM, HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT SEAT BELTS?

Really, a seat belt! ANd you fly a HANG GLIDER? Sell your shit, immediately! THIS SPORT IS WAAAAAAY more DANGEROUS than sitting in a car on its way to launch in SYLMAR!!!!
Hello! Not the 405 at rush hour, heading into LAX! (????????? Utter confusion, here.) Consider knitting or macrame'. Lots of good cappuccinos and gossip, while tackling those KNOTTY and cerebral problems...