USHPA mailer re: donations for RRG

[Bob Bendetson]

Obviously, we've all gotten emails and snail mails regarding donations to USHPA to launch RRG. Just trying to figure out whether or not to donate. Thoughts?

[Bob Kuczewski]

Hi Bob,

You can imagine that I'm not a fan of USHPA right now, but clubs have to get their insurance from somewhere, and USHPA is still the only game in town.

However, if individual pilots just hand their money over to USHPA, then they have no bargaining authority. But if clubs collect the donations locally, then as a club, Sylmar would be in a good position to get more favorable terms. Sylmar wouldn't actually turn the money over to USHPA until USHPA reports that it does have enough hard commitments (like Sylmar's) to actually fund the RRG. And if the RRG doesn't reach it's required level of funding, then you haven't given your money to USHPA. It's still in your local treasury to use as a possible insurance bond or for other options to keep your site open.

The bottom line is that USHPA has been in charge. They've done everything their way. This happened on their watch. They don't deserve to be rewarded with people throwing money at their feet. As a penalty for their irresponsibility, Chapters should be given more control of their own decisions, and that's what Sylmar should be requiring before turning over the money of your members to pay for screw ups at Torrey and other non-Sylmar sites.

FYI, here's the letter that I recently sent to all Hawks members on this topic:

Fellow Hawks,

These are extraordinary times in our sports. It's a time to look carefully at the facts and think clearly and calmly.

USHPA is desperately soliciting donations to maintain their monopoly over our sports. Do they deserve that monopoly? Are there other alternatives that USHPA is not revealing? If there were a way to continue to insure our sports without relying 100% on USHPA, do you think USHPA would tell you?

I think you already know the answers to those questions.

There is another way, and here's how it would work. Pilot's should ONLY donate money to their own LOCAL clubs with the understanding that those donations will ONLY go to USHPA's RRG if:

1. There is sufficient money to reach the needed amount
2. USHPA gives local clubs autonomy in insuring members

These are not unreasonable requests, and if USHPA refuses, then that's telling you that they have no intention of changing the policies that have led to this fiasco.

And speaking of this fiasco, it's important for members to understand how this came about. USHPA has been controlled by commercial interests for years now (maybe decades). Those commercial interests call the shots and USHPA has looked the other way whenever problems are reported against any of their "buddies". I know because I reported problems at Torrey Pines when I was Director, and nothing was done. It wasn't much more than a year later that those same unaddressed problems resulted in a serious injury and a subsequent insurance claim. I know because I was an expert witness in that case (as was Dennis Pagen and others). The evidence was clear that there had been gross negligence on the part of the Torrey operator, and the evidence was clear that I had reported it to USHPA long before the accident. The insurance company ended up settling that case just this past spring for an undisclosed amount of money. I'm sure it wasn't peanuts. But USHPA isn't telling you about that case, are they?

No, USHPA is trying to rally everyone to "save free flight".

Don't be fooled again.

There's nothing wrong with pooling the money of local clubs through USHPA to obtain group insurance, but the control of that insurance should rest with the local clubs and not with the failed leadership at USHPA. Look at my case as a clear example. If USHPA had heeded my warnings, it's very likely that an accident would have been averted and this insurance "emergency" would not have happened. But how did USHPA reward me for speaking out? With a national smear letter and an expulsion. Is it any surprise that USHPA has become uninsurable?

USHPA members have trusted USHPA with one thing - to keep us flying. USHPA has failed. In life ... as in flying ... there are penalties for mistakes. USHPA is asking pilots to step in and pick up the tab for their mistakes. Fine, when a business comes to its shareholders asking for more money, the shareholders have every right to ask for more stock and more control. That's what the local clubs should be doing. Don't give your money blindly to USHPA. Give it to your local club instead. If the numbers add up then your club can participate in the RRG on favorable terms. But if they don't, then at least you've still got control of your money locally. Once it goes to USHPA ... it's not coming back.

Please feel free to post or redistribute this message, and please contact me any time at 858-204-7499. These are extraordinary times, and we have an opportunity to really make a change for the better if we act calmly and wisely.

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski

There's little down side to pooling your donations locally first, and it could make the difference between having options and ... not.

[dhmartens]

Does this work like an investment that pays dividends to the investor? Does donating money remove my ability to receive a dividend? If I donate to SHGA does SHAG get dividends from the RRP? Will USHGA get to keep the donations should thay later switch to a conventional insurance system?

Taken from:
http://www.palumboinsassoc.com/userfiles/files/faqs.pdf
"...What will I receive for my investment in the RRG?
Each subscriber will receive a surplus contribution certificate evidencing ownership of the RRG. These
certificates will be a reflection of the surplus contribution bases on your premium size.
How and when will dividends be declared?
The board of directors (subscriber’s advisory committee) will determine a dividend formula and
dividends will be declared and paid from time to time to all subscribers in good standing based on the
number of shares held. As a member owned insurance company engaged in long tail liability risks, it is
expected that the first dividend will be paid after three to five years of operation...."

USHGA has a $3 million dollar building they have used our dues to purchase can that be used to fund the RRG?

[dhmartens]

I am trying to understand donating money to the RRG. I looked at Crossfit's personal sports training RRG for answers.

From what I read donating does not give you voting or profit dividend membership benefits but your donation could apply to your membership dues owed if you later join or pay dues in the future.

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-affiliates/2 ... 90509.html

From this link:
http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=44884&page=2
"...
Originally Posted by Leah Turner View Post
Apparently that is no longer the case:

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-affiliate...ay_090509.html - wfs

"Leah -- just got the answer you're looking for -- yes, if you donate now and become L1 certed later, we can apply that donation amount to your membership in the RRG.

So, for anybody in your situation, that's good news. Thanks for asking."

Comment #9 - Posted by: Lisbeth at May 9, 2009 3:35 PM
Let me clarify -- participation in the RRG is different than a donation to the RRG. Only L1 trainers and affiliates can participate as members, but anyone can donate. If, however, you're a donor who becomes L1 certed, then you can change your status and become a member.

Clear as mud?..."


Don't take this as legal advise it is just somethings I found on the internet.

It looks like membership gets one vote each to decide who can buy into the RRG.

I don't think the USHPA donating $1 million to the fund gives them any additional leverage in Banning Bobk from obtaining insurance.
(someone prove me wrong)

https://www.crossfitrrg.com/faq

[gregangsten]

If you want to know what your donation gives you, it's this: A chance to keep hang gliding alive in America. If we don't make this work, most of the sites in the country will disappear. Most of the instruction in the U.S. will probably disappear, then the manufacturers will disappear and hang gliding as we know it will be history.

Imagine yourself coming in to land and the wind switches. After zooming across the LZ, you pound in and break two downtubes. Let's make them Moyes downtubes. How long would it be before you ponied up the two hundred whatever bucks to get yourself back in the air? Not real long, I'd bet, assuming you didn't break your arm too. That's what it's going to take from all of us to make this happen. Just log on to ushpa.aero and get it over with. You'll recover but if you don't do it, HG here probably will not.

[Bob Bendetson]

Thanks Greg. Clear, concise answer. You scared the shit out of me and the money out of my wallet.

[JD]

For anyone waiting for everyone else to pay into the RRG consider this: If most pilots in the US become unable to fly then the resale value of your glider, harness and reserve will drop by many thousands of dollars (on average) while the hundred or so dollars that you saved will be all you have to show for your thrift.

[Bob Kuczewski]

What does your donation to USHPA get you?

That's easy. You get a mismanaged insurance program that even Lloyd's of London won't touch any more.

Yes, throw even more money at USHPA.

Don't even consider demanding resignations of the people who screwed up your 40 years of investment in hang gliding. Just give them more money and more power to further bankrupt your sport.

Insanity is doing the same thing again and again ... expecting a different outcome.

[Bob Bendetson]

Oh, yeah?! Well, would an insane person run off a mountain with a giant cloth attached to his back?! (on second thought) Okay, maybe you're right on that one.

[Bob Kuczewski]

2008 - Bob Kuczewski starts reporting Torrey problems to USHPA. Has anyone not noticed that?

2010 - As USHPA Director, Bob Kuczewski witnesses Torrey instructors crashing unrated students into parked hang gliders via radio. Torrey instructors attempt to cover it up. Bob reports this to USHPA. USHPA votes in new rule to keep Bob from being a Director for 3 years.

2011- Bob Kuczewski is living in Florida while Torrey instructors are supposedly radio instructing two PG students - Shannon (P1) and Dave (no PG rating). Shannon is being given turn by turn instructions on a south approach over buildings and palm trees that she's never made before. The instructor doesn't even notice that Dave is approaching from the north and guides Shannon on a collision course with Dave. The collide in mid-air and Shannon is badly injured.

2014 - Bob Kuczewski testifies that this was gross negligence on the part of the instructor. The insurance company settles the case for an undisclosed (I'll bet it's huge) amount.

2015 - USHPA "fixes" the poor instruction problem at Torrey by expelling Bob Kuczewski.

Yes, invest every dime you've got in that organization!

If USHPA were able to admit that they should have been paying better attention to the warnings of the last 7 years, then they might be deserving of another chance. Instead, they've doubled down on their stupidity. Put your money in a Sylmar fund and only give it to USHPA when the people responsible have resigned and USHPA charts a more responsible course.

[gregangsten]

So everybody should climb out of their canoe in the middle of the rapids and into Bob's, which has no paddle.

[BudRob]

For the record, your new incoming president sides with the outgoing one, 100% on this issue.

[JD]

.....2014 - Bob Kuczewski testifies that this was gross negligence on the part of the instructor. The insurance company settles the case for an undisclosed (I'll bet it's huge) amount....

According to my recollection of the evidence presented for Bob Kuczewski's expulsion from USHPA he gave testimony under oath for which he was not qualified to give by any stretch of the imagination. In effect, Bob betrayed over 9000 UHSPA members in furtherance of his personal spat against the Jebb family and in the process helped place the sports of hang gliding and paragliding in permanent jeopardy. Bob should do the honorable thing and go into permanent hiding.

[Bob Kuczewski]

According to my recollection of the evidence presented for Bob Kuczewski's expulsion from USHPA he gave testimony under oath for which he was not qualified to give by any stretch of the imagination.

False. My testimony was solid because it was true.

In effect, Bob betrayed over 9000 UHSPA members in furtherance of his personal spat against the Jebb family and in the process helped place the sports of hang gliding and paragliding in permanent jeopardy.

False again. You confuse cause and effect. The cause of Shannon's injuries was an out-of-control concessionaire. The cause of the out-of-control concessionaire was USHPA's failure to provide any meaningful oversight of their buddies at Torrey. The injuries and my testimony were inevitable consequences of USHPA's actions. Your willingness to blame the injured party is [polite]disappointing[/polite].

Bob should do the honorable thing and go into permanent hiding.

I use my name openly, "Tangent Man", because I am proud of standing up for justice. A young woman put her trust in the hands of people who [polite]didn't deserve it[/polite] and was badly injured. USHPA - the organization she joined as a member - betrayed her trust. Even worse, USHPA's [polite]expulsion hearing[/polite] against me is their threat to all members not to break the "code of silence" on dangerous practices. That's what makes them uninsurable.

An insurable organization would work to fix problems and provide a reward system for whistle blowers. An uninsurable organization tries to cover up problems and blame those who report them.

[AlC]

Once Bob tried to work for the good of pilots. Few traces of that Bob remain as he has been consumed by his vendetta against Torrey. We don't even have to look outside this posting string to see how he mis-represents the facts to suit his purposes.

From Bob's post above: "I know because I was an expert witness in that case (as was Dennis Pagen and others)". - Any reasonable person would think that meant that Bob and Dennis and others were working together. In fact, Bob was all alone in his version of events. Dennis Pagen and every other expert was on the other side of the table!

I feel very sorry for the Bob we have today.

Alan

[Bob Kuczewski]

Once Bob tried to work for the good of pilots.

My vision and focus have never changed. Unlike you, Alan, I have remained uncorrupted by my close contact with the USHPA central command.

From Bob's post above: "I know because I was an expert witness in that case (as was Dennis Pagen and others)". - Any reasonable person would think that meant that Bob and Dennis and others were working together.

No. Only someone who didn't actually read what I wrote would make that assumption. Only someone trying to twist my words to mean something else would make that assumption. That's the kind of "evidence" that USHPA uses to expel people and it's not evidence at all.

I mentioned Dennis Pagen to point out that USHPA members and Directors testified on both sides of this case. The case was between two parties - neither of which were USHPA itself. It could be argued that if USHPA were to take any side, they should have taken Shannon's since she was a USHPA member. But members get no support from USHPA when they're wronged by USHPA's buddies.

In Shannon's case - as in every case - both sides have a right to a defense and to call witnesses. It's up to the jury to sort it out. That's the best justice system we have. USHPA's actions by expelling me are an attempt to subvert that system and deny injured parties the right to expert witnesses with experience in our sports.

I feel very sorry for the Bob we have today.

Alan, I have remained true to my principles of fairness - whether it's for David Beardslee or Shannon Hamby or even for David Jebb. It is you who've been corrupted by your exposure to USHPA's intense internal peer pressure. Please feel sorry for your own lost soul.

[Bob Kuczewski]

OK, back onto Bob's original topic ...

The reason we're in this mess is because USHPA has had a monopoly on hang gliding insurance.

Think about it. If Geico, or Allstate, or Progressive, or any other insurance company went out of business, what would you do?

The answer is easy, you'd shrug your shoulders - maybe grumble about the inconvenience - and start calling around for an alternative.

Why can't we do that in hang gliding? The answer is because we've fed one monopoly for decades. That's why USHPA has been so lethargic about fixing problems at Torrey and other places. They hold a monopoly, so very few active pilots can quit. We're all "captive" to USHPA.

As I understand it, USHPA's RRG will continue to support their monopoly. They have stated that it will not generally be open to participation from other groups and clubs (like the SHGA, or the CSS, or the Torrey Hawks, or the US Hawks). They want the little guys (individual pilots) to contribute to USHPA directly so they have no bargaining power in this deal. It's not about "saving free flight". It's about USHPA desperately trying to cling to their monopoly.

Have you ever heard U$HPA suggesting ways that your club might free itself of the insurance burden? No. Have you ever heard U$HPA preaching about the laws protecting land owners from recreational use liability? No. Why not?

The answers are clear and they have nothing to do with "Bob Kuczewski". They have to do with the ultimate consequences of all monopolies:

1. Insensitivity to market forces
2. Insensitivity to needs of members
3. An entitlement mentality

DO NOT GIVE YOUR MONEY DIRECTLY TO USHPA.
GIVE IT TO THE SHGA TO USE TO HOLD USHPA ACCOUNTABLE.

What's the down side to that?

With regard to Bob getting the "___" scared out of him ... fear is a powerful weapon that's used to train animals, herd cattle, and control people. Fear was used in fueling the Salem Witch trials and it's being used against the sport of hang gliding today. Good men master their fear. Lesser men are mastered by it.

This is a chance to remake the sport of hang gliding and establish an insurance structure that allows for competition and rewards pilots based on performance rather than politics. Please step up for that future.

[Bob Bendetson]

You know, when I first posted my query about the insurance, I had no idea it would cause such a divisive response. From now on, I'll only post topics that are completely neutral, i.e.: Donald Trump rules! I can't see anyone having a problem with that.

[AlC]

Sorry Bob B.

Every sport has its gadflies http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gadfly and ours is particularly annoying and occasionally hazardous to the sport. If you want a laugh, take a look at http://www.torreyhawksforum.org/ It's the last organization he started...

I generally ignore him and will henceforth in this thread. Little of what he posts stands up to scrutiny.

Alan

[Bob Kuczewski]

... gadflies ...

Name calling and personal attacks will not secure the future of hang gliding at Sylmar or anywhere else Alan.

If you want a laugh, take a look at http://www.torreyhawksforum.org/ It's the last organization he started.

Another false statement Alan? The Torrey Hawks was the FIRST hang gliding organization that I helped to start. The LAST (so far) was the Friends of Dockweiler Gliding Society ... currently headed up by Frank Colver. In between those I helped with the Southwest Texas Hang Gliders and, of course, the national U.S. Hawks Hang Gliding Association.

See http://torreyhawks.org
See http://ushawks.org

The site that you listed is a site that Jack Axoupolous (sg) created and controls as a means of smearing people who disagree with him. For you to list that smear site as if it represented the Torrey Hawks in any way is dishonest. Weren't you supposed to be the "no more surprises" RD? I find your public dishonesty surprising ... and disturbing.

I generally ignore him and will henceforth in this thread. Little of what he posts stands up to scrutiny.

Alan

Alan, everything I've posted stands up well to scrutiny. That's why my testimony was so powerful. It was accurate and truthful. All people can make mistakes and I'm no exception. But the points I've made here stand up so well to scrutiny that all you've offered in response are personal attacks ... and a promise to run away. That's a promise I hope you'll keep.

For everyone else, this is our time in history to start freeing ourselves from the monopoly of a single national association. Use your donation to help give your club a greater role in charting your own future. Donate to the SHGA where you will have greater control of it than the drop in a bucket it will mean at USHPA.