Hand Positions on landing .

[OSCAR]

Ok here's another video,note the hand position this is What Joe taught me B.L.E.S,BODY UPRIGHT ,LOW HANDS,EYES ON TARGET,SPEED AS CHOSEN.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT7S6ZMar84 He did not teach me the Grapevine grip That came naturally.

[abinder]

Ok here's another video,note the hand position this is What Joe taught me B.L.E.S,BODY UPRIGHT ,LOW HANDS,EYES ON TARGET,SPEED AS CHOSEN.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT7S6ZMar84 He did not teach me the Grapevine grip That came naturally.

What I believe that most people (including myself) are saying is that you shouldn't be using the 'grapevine' grip for taking off or landing; you just don't have the control with it.

The hand positions during the landing phase were nice, but it appeared that you were still using the 'grapevine' grip during the takeoff portion. That position may lead to you 'manhandling' the glider more than 'flying' the glider at launch.

Just my opinion though.

Allen

[Greg DeWolf]

Oscar,

I'm a little confused. You say this hand position gives you the greatest grip, but I can't imagine using it in, say, the extreme situation where I was hanging from the bar--such as doing pull ups? Is this how you do pull-ups?

Greg DeWolf

[OSCAR]

What I believe that most people (including myself) are saying is that you shouldn't be using the 'grapevine' grip for taking off or landing; you just don't have the control with it.


A lot of people use the grapevine Dennis Pagen is an advocate for it.I see a lot of the comp pilots use it on launch and landing some guys don't even switch to the down tubes for landing it's a good control grip for me on launch in windy conditions where I don't want a wing coming up. and my hang strap is tight before I begin my launch which I find comforting.feeling I'm hooked in. Like anything else theres more than one way to do it ,and different doesn't make it wrong its just a different technique. I watched Jonathan using an Australian launch technique last month where you launch with both hands on the basetube . what do you think of that.

[OSCAR]

Oscar,

I'm a little confused. You say this hand position gives you the greatest grip, but I can't imagine using it in, say, the extreme situation where I was hanging from the bar--such as doing pull ups? Is this how you do pull-ups?

Greg DeWolf

I never said it was a great pull up grip . I was responding to Jonathan's Question. He asked why I held the Grapevine grip for so long after launch I was in strong lift and close to the ground and I wasn't about ready to let go of the Down tubes and get turned or blown back.Sorry for any confusion .My spell check says you spelled your name wrong

[abinder]

I don't think that Joe would be too happy with you using your 'grapvine' grip during launch. If you don't believe me, ask him.

Allen

[JD]

.............A lot of people use the grapevine............I watched Jonathan using an Australian launch technique last month where you launch with both hands on the basetube . what do you think of that.

Oscar, I use the grapevine to initiate my launch run but change my grip to bottle grip low on the downtubes right before I rotate the nose up. Greblo teaches launching with the bottle grip and hands low on the downtubes. I can't do that technique unless I learn to launch over again from scratch. I at least try to keep my hands low on the downtubes and hold my posture until I feel I'm away from the danger zone on launch.

A blown Aussie base bar launch on Kagel is guaranteed to result in a cartwheel on launch and will probably wipe out the glider, pilot, and any glider downwind of the hapless, tumbling acrobat. I removed the video months ago. It should only be used on laminar sites like POM Utah or on the coast. I lucked into a 5-second window of steady 25+mph wind on launch one day and exploited the opportunity. It's a Hang 4+ technique at any site.

Don't worry about the Monday morning quarterbacking. Your flying keeps improving in my observations. Follow the basic BLESS philosophy which I understand focuses on two key factors:
1 - keeping your speed high enough to avoid loss of control in turbulence while in the Danger Zone; and
2 - avoid changing body posture or hand grip in the Danger Zone to prevent getting turned downwind into the ground or the hillside.
As I understand it, these are the premises behind the method. Please don't confuse the techniques for the reasons BLES is there. Pagen doesn't teach BLES and comp/seasoned pilots do wipe out on launch and landings because they don't all follow the BLES philosophy.

Are far as my flying goes, please don't emulate certain of the things I sometimes do (like that base bar launch). Many of these I just keep to myself or discuss only with those who witnessed it. Don't forget I was an HG test pilot in the '70s and many of my peers were killed or became quadriplegics. I also witnessed several serious accidents back then and each pilot failed to keep his airspeed high enough near terrain to avoid the subsequent loss of control.

[abinder]

Don't worry about the Monday morning quarterbacking.

So, are you saying I'm doing "Monday morning quarterbacking?"
(be very careful what you say)

Allen