IS ANYONE INTERESTED IN...

[JT]

Joe Greblo and I were talking today (as we watched to see if the LZ would wash away) and it occurred to us that Ken's idea for an Adventure Pass fell through the cracks. Such ideas could be very important to the SHGA as a means of retaining members. The hardest part for any new pilot is getting to know the Kagel landscape, both literally and socially. We don't seem to be very good at providing support for either. We've seen a lot of new faces this year but many have already faded away.

I think we should resurrect Ken's idea in some form, maybe as an extension of the very successful Falcon League. Also, there could be flying and LZ events for H2 and new H3 pilots. Maybe informal comps for duration or distance. Or? Ideas solicited.

We should all be trying to support new members that are still trying to find there place here.

I will help anyone that approaches me with ideas and help as much as I can to implement them. I will ask for Andy, Joe and Ken's opinion on viability and safety. Let's get something going for spring air.

[OSCAR]

You sir are absolutely correct.We need to get these new member's involved in fun flying related activities .A Jr falcon league with realistic goals for H2-H3 pilots would be great ,"Follow the leader",a mentoring program would also be good for training and retaining new pilots & building camaraderie.It's nice to get a phone call and a invitation to go fly from your friends.Some of these pilots may not feel comfortable coming out to the LZ by themselves (to many STRANGERS) or maybe they can't afford to drive out by themselves.I no it can get expensive driving out every weekend .but if local pilots carpool it's affordable for everyone.yes we need to encourage their natural enthusiasm get the road blocks out of their way and get some FUN activities going if we want to retain member's.If it's not fun ....why do it.

[addicted2climbing]

Hey Jt and Oscar,

I would be interested in some entry level flying and LZ events. I only have 6 solos off Kagel at the moment, but once I get to the point where I am on my own, I would love to get as much help and advice as possible and maybe there could be little tasks that could reinforce new skills with small safe challenges. A Jr falcon league would be a good start.

Maybe a flying partner/mentor program where an H2 could be paired with an H3 or H4 and the advanced pilots spend some time once flying day a month with the H2 to find their strengths and weaknesses and help them work on being a better and safer pilot. This way an H2 could learn from a pilot with many experiences and could possibly avoid learning something the hard way sort to speak. Maybe even schedule it as a "mentor day" so others know the sky will be full of newbies beforehand..

Take care,

Marc

[JT]

Some thoughts on mentoring...
Radio is required in flight. I tried this with someone once and he was very uncomfortable in a thermal with me nearby even with me telling him where I was. Flying in a straight line is better. Next time I do this (last time was impromptu) I will think about changing my polars to Falcon level or asking that Greblo have a loaner 5030 available. Malury can explain, why. This is a one on one commitment over several flights to be comfortable together. The learner has to be as patient as the mentor.

I am willing to try again. Who's up for this? We can both learn together what's best for this approach. I think it would be good to start incorporating Ken's Adventure Pass into this, too. We can work on markers for achievement.

[addicted2climbing]

Hey jt,

I would be very interested but I don't think I am ready quite yet. I have a few more radio assisted solos to do yet as well as my supervised ones. However, I hope to be on my own working toward H3 by spring or early summer. I have a radio and am studying for the HAM test at the moment.

Now in regards to the 5030, is that needed by the student? I don't have a 5030, but I do have something equivalent. I have a flight computer running on an HP PNA coupled to a blue tooth Vario. I am still waiting on my vario to arrive, but it should be here soon.

Take care,

Marc

[Steve90266]

Oscar, all great ideas! I remember what it was like as a newbie to the sport and to Kagel. The cliques are not too friendly until they figure out you are going to hang with the sport. If the club made a conscious effort to reach out to the new people I think it would help greatly.

[addicted2climbing]

Hey Steve,

While I have noticed some cligues in some ways, I can say that everyone has made me feel welcome. Heck i'm always offered a beer by someone I have yet to meet which is nice.

I think its more about being there more. My ability to fly has been tough base don work schedules but also on money. Lessons can get costly so newbies sometimes cant fly every weekend so it takes time to meet people random weekends at a time.

Hopefully once summer hits, I'll be able to be there just about every weekend. May have to sell my climbing gear now to afford new HG gear...

Take care,

Marc

[ericbrown]

I like the idea of more team flying/comps at Kagel. Maybe doing 3 person teams built from a topless pilot, a double surface kingposted pilot, and falcon pilot. Not sure what the format or tasks would be, I'm sure this has been done at other sites.

[JT]

Until the advent of the GPS-Vario combination, the Dahlsten was a dual comp pairing an H4 with an H2. I think they both tried to find as many of the sheets with painted designs as possible. Kendall would trek the mountains spreading the sheets at key points. The combined high score won.

I was thinking that the teams could be of H2 and H3 pilots, balanced for experience and glider performance. There would be a combination score consisting of max altitude, max distance from the launch and max duration for each pilot on a team. Honor system where it can't be documented by an instrument. The H4s would coach. Let's keep something like this in mind for sunnier days.

[OSCAR]

OK,.............heres some more ,We could play follow the leader H4 leads H2 or H3 through a predetermined flight plan destination could be a alternate LZ, Speed assembly who can do it faster.....to easy... OK, Who can do it faster blind folded. how about a 360 contest who can do the most over the LZ ,same for Figure 8's , Speed gliding to the LZ. spot landing But we could move the cone around and make it more challenging, Sand bag drop like at Elsinore, How about a hike up kagel(without the glider) then assemble your glider fly down to the LZ,break down all under the clock. or a glider long jump this would be great to practice launches ,each competitor would do a launch run at a line on the grass jump and see who gos the furthest. how about Harness egress see who can get out faster.I'm sure we can think up more activities,The important thing is to make it Fun , educational to keep our skills sharp.and retain members.We should also try inviting people to the LZ on a regular basis,when was the last time you invited a non member or pilot out to the LZ.

[addicted2climbing]

Oscar some of those suggestions sound really fun..a few corny but fun as well..

New members seem to be a problem in just about any form of aviation based club. it was the same with my full size sailplane club as well as my R/C soaring club. With the R/C club we had issues with losing flying sites to AYSO and at lest we dont have that problem at the SHGA which is nice. I like that the club site is pretty much fixed so barring any sort of catastrophe that could take it away.

Anyhow the problem with the HG is that Tandems are a bit expensive to just bring by friends to check out. The beach lessons are affordable, but even that is tough for some. So it can be a bit tough to get people to experience what it feels like to fly. At least with a sailplane you can just take a friend for a ride and with the R/C stuff its not a big deal to just hand over the transmitter on a trainer to let someone try it. Could a day be set every other month or so where people meet at the beach to allow family members or interested friends to try HG for a minimal investment. Then if they like it they enroll in a lesson program with Joe. I am unsure if this would even be allowed since I am pretty sure the beach site needs to operate under certain rules. but if it were to benefit both Joe and the club it may be worth exploring.

[dhmartens]

To lower the Tandem price, or just make more money I think a tandem pilot could go into a maximum rotation mode to get 10 flights in per day. He would need 2 gliders a driver, a debriefer, and a Honda CT-90 minibike.
Four drive up(2 passengers, pilot, driver) Quick set up, launch, driver sets up 2nd glider. When the pilot lands, he immediately rides the CT-90 up the hill. The Debriefer processes the video and makes remarks as per the pilots short instructions or tape narration(possibly a quick bunny hill shallow solo on a condor too). When the pilot gets back up the hill, he launches the 2nd passenger. The driver brings the CT-90 back down the hill on the truck bumper.
At this point the debreifer has broken down the 1st glider. The pilot breaks down the 2nd glider and 2 more passengers are brought back up the hill.

At the end of the day you put the pilot into the jacuzzi and set it on high.

[dhmartens]

I liked that show on CBS, Survivor, where they do those puzzles and obstacle courses. Maybe launch Kagel, top land 1500, get puzzle pieces and a key. Relaunch and top land Trash, open a box with the key and get more puzzle pieces. Relaunch and land the LZ. Run to a table, dump out your puzzle pieces and solve the puzzle.

[dhmartens]

Now this is a strange idea:

Aerial Laser Paintball

A glider flys with maybe 3 balloons attached to the keel and sides of the base tube. Each glider is also fitted with this real working modded Star Trek Phaser (see video). When all 3 of your balloons have popped you are out and must land.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S71mPJ0F0Q[/youtube]

[OSCAR]

I like that Phaser idea that would be cool aerial combat .

[Ken Andrews]

There are a lot of great ideas here. Thank you, Jim, for remembering the Adventure Pass; it's a project I'm still rather fond of. You'll find it on our website, in the blue menu bar on the left, under the "Learn to Fly" category, or right here: http://www.shga.com/ratingsInfo.asp. I've wondered if it would work as an outline for a mentoring program. A couple H-2 and low-hour H-3 pilots could work on the Adventure Pass, preferably with an advanced pilot or two to provide a little guidance and a few suggestions along the way. It could be as informal as one wanted, and all it would take is an eager low-hour pilot or a civic-minded high-hour pilot to talk to a pilot in the other category. By the way, an H-2 pilot who has completed the Adventure Pass may remove his kingpost streamer!

Many of you will recall Don Banas's Summer Competition that he organized in 2006 and 2007; it's completely documented in the "Comp Discussion" section of the pilot forum. It wasn't so different from a Jr Falcon League, and was very successful both years. While Don was a relatively low airtime pilot at the time, he took the initiative and inspired a lot of fun flying. If Oscar (for example) wanted to organize it this summer, I bet there would be a lot of interested pilots. I don't think organizing it was that hard, and I'm sure Don would provide some helpful tips.

On occasion, I hear people request more competitions at Kagel, like our annual Spring Air and Dahlsten Cup events. Done properly, such a comp is scored by GPS, and that requires someone with the technical wizardry to drive the scoring software. Jeff Chipman has done this at every Sylmar competition for several years now, and we're deeply grateful. But it's a burden, and the club really needs another pilot with the appropriate geek credentials to learn the art of GPS scoring.

By now, I'm sure you see the theme: more events would be great, and all that's needed is someone to lead the way. So here's an experiment to try. Next time you're in the LZ, look around. Do you organize more activities and projects for the club than those around you? If so, thanks! If not, maybe it's time to pitch in and become one of the above-average folks. These are the people who have built the SHGA into what it is, and who will keep it going strong.

[JT]

About the Adventure Pass: Does anyone else think it's a good idea? I believe Ken Andrews envisioned it as a badge of honor for H2 pilots, not as a passport to extreme flying. I will ask Ken directly what tasks he may have had in mind. I think we could use some perspective from the higher-hour H3s that have more recently achieved their own benchmarks. What were they?

My first, most memorable moment was launching the 1500 and slowly gaining enough altitude to see over the back of the 2200 into Santa Clarita.

PS - Sorry, Ken, I guess we were thinking the same thing at the same time and you beat this by a few minutes.

[JT]

OK, Ken. A reasonable set of expectations with one difficulty:

Ostensibly, the sign-offs are by a USHPA Instructor or Observer. Was that just your thinking at the moment you were inspired and can we change it to H4 proficiency pilots since it isn't going to be recognized by any but SHGA members?

[addicted2climbing]

Hello All,

the adventure pass sort of reminds me of the A,B & C badge program on sailplanes. Where each badge earned builds required skills to be a safer pilot. It also gives a student an achievable goal that is within reach.

Here is a link: http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=5361749529

I think something along these lines could be done for HG. It could definitely be adopted by the USHPA to be non site specific, but for our needs maybe we could make it site specific since any new HG student will be flying Kagel as their training grounds. I dont have enough backgroaund with the area yet, since I am new, but maybe we have a list of Alternate Launches each student could work up to as well as a land-out clinic where students walk the potential LZ's in the area and then the following day land in one if conditions allow. A falcon league follow the leader day within reason since both mentor and student would both be flying single surface. Currently all of this is above my current skill level, but by spring or early summer it would be nice to have a set of goals that both teach and reinforce much needed skills rather then just flying around once I am on my own. Also it could be an optional program and not required but chosen by the student if they decide they want to continue to work towards goals.

Take care,

Marc

[noack]

I am an h-2 with lot of flights and plenty of hours to be an h-3........ And I still suck

Anything I could I can participate in that is fun, and will help me get better sounds great to me


Matt