CUP - 1 Year After the Fact

[Joseph]

It is approaching 1 year since I stood before you and said that the club needed to get a CUP. In that time we have talked, gathered information, looked at our past CUP application, spoken with the councilman and his office staff member Dan Rosales. We have gone down to the planning office, we have a web site with documents in the member section of the SHGA website. We have asked for, look at, queried, discussed and pondered.

What we don't have is an application 12 months after the fact. Now the first finger I am going to point is at me. I have been very busy the past year. I have hardly had time to fly at all. Yeah I'm a cry baby. But, if I had the time to fill out the applications and the time to pursue the process well then we still would be where we are now because there is no clear consensus with the board on what to do.

There are those on the board that believe we should fill out the forms and go forward. But no forms are filled out. There are those that believe perhaps we can get away with no CUP at all. We have from Nick Krall, who is on the neighborhood council an opinion that the L/Z falls under an "open space" clause that enables us to do what we do without a CUP. But whether or not this is true is not clear and we haven't been able to get anyone at the councilman's office to help in an expedient way.

I firmly believe that progress will continue to move much more slowly than the timeframe that I would like left as it is. My timeframe is that we are at a minimum at the end part of the CUP process and that we have plans and some process on going with the planning department on the gazebo by December.... 2008. That is the best we can hope for now.

I know there are a million and one reasons and opinions from everyone involved in the CUP process as to why we shouldn't, can't, couldn't and better not do what I am proposing, but at this point I don't give a damn.

We could also, use some help. So if anyone would like to volunteer to assist with the additional work that will come out of this effort that would be great. Or don't volunteer and we will slowly move forward at the pace of a snail.

[Don]

Joseph,

I fully support you!

However, from what I've heard over the last couple of years - the total cost will be significantly more than $1,000. It is my opinion that with the cash reserves this club has the cost of obtaining a CUP will not have a determental impact on the Club's financial position.

We need to move forward!

As the saying goes ... "You are either part of the solution or you are part of the problem"

I consider you part of the solution.

Thanks for all your time, effort, and concern.

Don

[stebbins]

I agree with the above two comments.

When I was President, I pushed (not too hard) to start the process, but it was clear that the consensus was that it was not yet time. I think that we have slowly drifted to the point where most folks think it needs to happen.

So, I say "Move forward." Our finances are good. The neighbors like us. We haven't annoyed anyone specific lately that I know of. There is the safety issue that is a bit more obvious now than a few months ago, but still, all in all, it is unlikely to get better, and it could get much worse. Strike while the iron is hot, as they say.

One comment though. If there is a reasonable chance that the neighborhood council guy is right, then it seems prudent to push the city council to tell us that in writing if possible. Of course, that won't solve the zoning issue for the gazebo, so I don't know what we'd do then. But we need to do this and we need to do it while we are in the best position we've been in for years, vis-a-vis our resources and our position with the neighbors.

I wish I could help more, but as many of you have noticed, I'm not even flying all that much lately. I hope to change that, but until things are different here, I'm unavailable for such. Yea, I can whine too! I wanna flyyyyyyy!!!!!!

[Joseph]

I don't want to write a blank check and that said 1 grand won't cover the cost of a consultant. However, it puts some money behind going forward and quantifies part of the cost that must be paid either in sweat or hard cash. The board donates hours and hours of time and there is simply not enough of it available to move forward fast enough and keep momentum.
People become discouraged, look to shorter term solutions, like planting grass or whatever and the problem remains.

There was a time in my life when I sold computers. I worked really hard. Stayed late, read all about the latest hardware, made cold calls. At the end of the year, my manager told me that they were shipping me off to a different store. The store in question, was the backwater of the company. I complained and pointed out all my hard work, to which he replied that he didn't care if I stayed on the beach all day if I would sell something.

Perhaps I am a bull in a china closet right now. I just want to get something, anything done. Otherwise sometimes all the hard work in the world can add up to nothing where it counts.

Thanks for the support while I go around stepping on everyone's toes.

[Joseph]

George and Don, this money would go to a consultant that "expedites" applications. The guy knows people in the government and is experienced in the application process. The first thing I would like him to do is investigate completely whether our requirement to get a CUP is actually real. The issue with paying people for this stuff is that they can bill you into the ground. Hence the attempt at applying for the CUP ourselves. The cost alone for applying for a CUP is over 2k, but the process itself looks straight forward. We have been for some time trying to find out how to make the application itself as close as possible in form to what the planning dept would require through Richard Alarcon's office, and have received assurances of help but no actual help. Nick Krall has been very helpful, but he has only been involved for 2 months, and once again asking him to contribute more that he already has is a difficult thing to do. So that is my reasoning behind the money. Pay someone to follow up on Nick's ideas and to push our effort in the councilmans office.

[JBBenson]

They are called "Permit Expediters" and one such company is JPL Zoning in Van Nuys. 818.781.0016

They can often give you a written estimate for the work, so you at least have a ceiling on costs. This has been discussed before in this forum.

Problem is no one "owns" the project so it dies in committee like most things. Such a person needs the tools, resources and mandate to do this then it will happen.

Also the board is pathologically tight-fisted to the point that it works against the club's interests.

I would think that the people who fly the most have the most to lose if SHGA disappears. But they are the ones who seem to care the least.

Joseph, PM me if you want more information. Your service is much appreciated.

[stebbins]

Nobody owns it: You got that right. That's exactly what happens. Or someone does own it, but then everyone else says "Oh, HE'S doing that" and the gal/guy doing all the work gets overwhelmed. Been there done that. One more reason to get a pro involved, maybe.

Pathologically tight-fisted: Yea, perhaps. Those of us around for a while remember the last few times the BOD tried to spend money or raise dues. You'd have thought that we were selling the land and moving to Tahiti. I've never (and I mean never) seen as high a percentage of pilots get involved so fast in club business. (OK, when we almost lost the LZ and we formed the club was like that too, but that made SENSE!) So, BOD members do tend to be skittish about spending money. But that is a reaction to club members input. If they got different input, they might have a different response. I suspect part of it is that even if club members want more done, they don't generally complain "spend more money". But the more frugal among us DO complain "spend less money." Sometimes it really is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. So if you want something, you need to let the BOD know. (Nicely please - these guys spend a lot of personal time that they'd rather be doing other things. And they do it for YOU. Start out with "I appreciate all you've been doing." It makes such a difference!)

One suggestion: You probably already have done this, but an ex-hang-glider pilot named John Wickham is well connected in City Hall, last time I talked to him. Greblo probably has his number. If not, PM me, I can probably get in touch with him. (I suspect he's already helping, but if not, try giving him a call.) He is not only a nice guy, but he's smart and very government-presentable-looking. (No scruffy hang glider pilot type!)

[Joseph]

John Wickham is involved and has been speaking with Joe Greblo and others. There is a committee of which I am part so there is ownership. The problem in my opinion is that we have not made and do not appear to be on the path to make significant progress in a timely manner. However, my unhappiness with progress to date is not shared by all involved.

I believe the board needs help to get this project done. It is just too big a project and no volunteer has the time to chase the government bureaucracy. I was calling Dan Rosales daily for a time. This has been going on for months and months.

So, we bring in a paid gun and ask for more help from the membership.

Any and all help would be appreciated.

[Don]

Joseph,

I agree with you again !

I'm not "slamming" anyone (which sometimes I have done).

This project would appear to be very time consuming and expecting any one(s) to see this through to a sucessful conclusion in their spare time and on a volunteer basis is expecting way too much. The ground work, and then some, appears to have been done. Now it is decision time. If the club wants to move forward - let's hire professionals.

Hopefully this poll will provide the Board with an insight as to the "wishes" of the Club Members.

Thanks yet again.

[Glenn]

I don't know if we should get the cup or not but the BOD's job is to decide:
1) Do we pursue the CUP?
2) How much do we spend is simple: What it takes. Otherwise forget #1. This is exactly what I've always heard these funds were for.
3) What is the overall plan of action?
4) What is the next step. Let's get to this decision and make it.

If we just decide the next step and get someone to do that, then rinse and repeat, we will at least make progress.

Apparently, the whole project is too big for anyone to own, or even any one board. That does not prevent us from taking the next step. This board and future ones should make it top priority to at least take the next step.

We need to ask for a volunteer to own just the next step. I don't know anything about this stuff, but if I clearly knew what the next step was, I may be able to do it, or some other step. Perhaps the board could develop the plan with specific tasks that people could volunteer for. I would also suggest that we lavish great acknowledgment on those who complete them. (Hang 6 rating?)

* All of this of course depends on if we will pursue the CUP at all. The board must decide that ASAP.

ps. What will we do with the unspent money after we lose our site. That could be a kick ass party!

[dhmartens]

Joseph,

May the wind be at your back(except for launch and landing).

"preserve the flying site for Hang Gliding use" #1 responsibility listed in: BoardResponsibilities.pdf

Any board member against the CUP should publicly post their reason on this forum.

The CUP by itself does not protect our site. The Launch, FAA, and City of Los Angeles can all shut us down at a moments notice. We do have a lot going for us and the CUP only strengthens our presence in Sylmar. I read on page 8 or 9 of the Santiago Estates CUP that hang gliding must be provided for.

Now might be the time to do it with the election coming up, falling house prices, and crappy economy, the city officials might like to be seen as keeping Sylmar special by supporting Hang Gliding at the worlds capital. Otherwise Sylmar would be known as "The tract of land just north of the city of San Fernando" or "That place where they used to have a lot of olive trees".

Our experts teamed with the elite experts at JPL Zoning along with their $7,000 fee seems like an action plan with a high possibility of success.

The two oil wells(storage boxes) have provided the club with adequate funds to proceed.

Doug Martens

[Don]

Just a post to keep this topic at the top of the pile - where it belongs!

[Joseph]

If you have the time, or if you don't make the time. I think it is important for the board to hear how the membership feels about the CUP application process. This Thursday at 7:00 pm Windsports house, be there or be square.

[Don]

While the vote count is a little under-whelming (think ... California mid-year election primaries), those that have voted have unaimously voted (so far) to spend the money. Obviously no one has objected (yet).

I would hope the Board takes the message - MOVE FORWARD !

[bricksfly]

I did not see a location to cast a vote. I am in favor of using our funds which is likely to exceed $1000 to go forward with getting the Conditional Use Permit to help solidify our claim and usage of this site for hang/para gliding.

thank you,

[Joseph]

At Thursday night’s board meeting Robert Fedor an expeditor who has been recommended by Nick Krall of the neighborhood council presented to the board. These are the general outcomes of that meeting.

There is agreement that the scope and complexity of submitting a CUP application is beyond available time and abilities of our volunteer board.

An application will go forward for both the CUP AND the Gazebo so that we are ready to break ground at the end of the process.

Mr. Fedor has presented a FIXED PRICE proposal of 6k which is very competitive for the whole process including any appeals should our efforts fail.

The question before the board is whether to use Mr. Fedor, and not the use an expeditor. In order to gather references and consider the decision a motion to vote by next week Yes or No for Mr. Fedor has been agreed by the board.

The payment to Mr. Fedor is 3k to begin the process and another 3 when finished. Government fees run around 5k and so the complete process would cost around 11k for BOTH the CUP and Permits for the Gazebo. The timeline is 6-7 months from project initiation which would mean we would begin construction around February-March 2009, if all things go well.

The board would like to hear member’s opinions, so post your view here or send email to the board.

[Don]

Sounds GREAT !

Move foreward !

Thanks to everyone that has worked on this project.

[JBBenson]

Thank God somebody pulled the f**king trigger.

Thank you Joseph for your service and your insight.

[jsc1959]

Yep i second that!

[stebbins]

If he is competent enough for the neighborhood council to recommend him, then he seems a bargain at $6k. Especially if the government part of the process is only $5k. I really expected it to cost more.

I vote a resounding YES!

Of course, I was in favor of it when I though it would cost $20k++ instead of $11k. Great job on getting as a "free" $9k++ back! And on realizing that the BOD couldn't do it themselves.