Hello All,
So I have been dreaming of eventualy geting a Freedom 190 when I finaly decide to upgrade from my Falcon 1-225, but now I see the Malibu for sale and am unfamiliar with the design but it looks quite nice. I know many here have Moyes gliders and seem quite happy with them. Anyhow, only thing I am leary about is online I see it is rated for 112.5 KG (248lbs) pilot and I currently weigh 235lbs, so my hook in weight would be higher than the 112.5kg. Also I would end up on the far end of the spectrum weight wise so my wingloading would be higher then the average person on this wing that it was designed for. I would like to stick with single surface for some time since it seems like more my cup of tea as to why I like to fly. However I am in no hurry to upgrade, but I highly doubt a Freedom 190 is going to show up used anytime soon. Seems like the Malibu is a bit better than a Falcon but probably not as good as the freedom. However the freedom has a much lighter airframe.
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Oh and due to an Awesome tax return, I am considering this and it will at least allow me to afford to get my butt back in the air since my work schedule and lack of funds were keeping me away.
Take care,
Marc
Regarding Moyes Malibu 188 for sale
Moderator: Chip
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addicted2climbing
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:50 pm
I would wait,
Once you have more hours on the 225, you mind may change your mind on what you want next.
I was once itching to upgrade, but I have had some awesome glides recently where I stay up longer than people with high performance gliders. If anything at this point I might buy another falcon.
Read this article:
http://willswing.com/articles/Article.a ... owToChoose
It has several points which have convinced me to stay with my falcon for some time.
Myth 1: You will outgrow your glider.
2: You Need A High Performance Glider To Do Real Hang Gliding.
3: I'll Automatically Get Better Performance On A Higher Performance Glider.
4: Hang Gliders are easy to fly.
In the end I found that if you don't have the skills to take advantage of a high performance kite, you have less fun. That is you don't stay in the air as long and can't progress your skills.
Once you have more hours on the 225, you mind may change your mind on what you want next.
I was once itching to upgrade, but I have had some awesome glides recently where I stay up longer than people with high performance gliders. If anything at this point I might buy another falcon.
Read this article:
http://willswing.com/articles/Article.a ... owToChoose
It has several points which have convinced me to stay with my falcon for some time.
Myth 1: You will outgrow your glider.
2: You Need A High Performance Glider To Do Real Hang Gliding.
3: I'll Automatically Get Better Performance On A Higher Performance Glider.
4: Hang Gliders are easy to fly.
In the end I found that if you don't have the skills to take advantage of a high performance kite, you have less fun. That is you don't stay in the air as long and can't progress your skills.
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addicted2climbing
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:50 pm
Hey OP,
I fully intend to stick with Single Surface for some time. I like the idea of the Falcon league more than anything and it is my goal to take part in that one day. My Falcon 1 will do me fine, but it is a bit beat up with a crinkled leading edge fabric and its quite heavy since the original owner swapped out the leading edges for thicker wall tubing to use it as a tandem. I have the original leading edges and may swap back eventualy to see if it helps weight wise. My falcon 1-225 is fricken heavy..When I picked up Oscars F2-225 I was amazed how light it was.
If I knew what I know now, I would have seen that most people keep theyre falcon for fun flying and I would have bought one in better conditon. I see keeping my next wing for a long time so I am only considering it to get something a bit newer/nicer, but not so much for higher performance. If money was not an issue I would choose performance and get the freedom, but my budget is in the 2K range.
However I did some thinking today and figured I am such a low time H2 that it would do me good to just finish the last few radio assisted solos on my falcon then this summer work toward getting hours and skills that would make it easier to know what I am looking for in the future. But I do know I still want a newer Single Surface so perhaps buying one at a good price and shelving it is worthwhile.
Marc
I fully intend to stick with Single Surface for some time. I like the idea of the Falcon league more than anything and it is my goal to take part in that one day. My Falcon 1 will do me fine, but it is a bit beat up with a crinkled leading edge fabric and its quite heavy since the original owner swapped out the leading edges for thicker wall tubing to use it as a tandem. I have the original leading edges and may swap back eventualy to see if it helps weight wise. My falcon 1-225 is fricken heavy..When I picked up Oscars F2-225 I was amazed how light it was.
If I knew what I know now, I would have seen that most people keep theyre falcon for fun flying and I would have bought one in better conditon. I see keeping my next wing for a long time so I am only considering it to get something a bit newer/nicer, but not so much for higher performance. If money was not an issue I would choose performance and get the freedom, but my budget is in the 2K range.
However I did some thinking today and figured I am such a low time H2 that it would do me good to just finish the last few radio assisted solos on my falcon then this summer work toward getting hours and skills that would make it easier to know what I am looking for in the future. But I do know I still want a newer Single Surface so perhaps buying one at a good price and shelving it is worthwhile.
Marc
After I helped a little with Sony and Greblo to short pack a falcon 3, I would say you should put back the original lighter leading edges and fly that a while. Even the lighter ones would take you up to 440lbs pilot weight.
The falcon 1 225 is 59lbs, the falcon 2 225 is 61 lbs
the April 2005 rev 9 Falcon 2 manual states:
The recommended hook in pilot weight range for the Falcon 1 is:
Falcon 225: 185 - 440 lbs.
The recommended hook in pilot weight range for the Falcon 2 is:
Falcon 2 225: 185 - 300 lbs.
The recommended hook in pilot weight range for the Falcon Tandem is:
Falcon Tandem 185 - 500 lbs.
The optimum hook in pilot weight range for the Falcon 1 is:
Falcon 225: 230 - 300 lbs.
The optimum hook in pilot weight range for the Falcon 2 is:
Falcon 2 225: 240 - 300 lbs.
The optimum hook in pilot weight range for the Falcon Tandem is:
Falcon Tandem 240 - 500 lbs.
Note in particular that while the Falcon 1 225 was considered suitable for light duty tandem
flight, the Falcon 2 225 is NOT APPROVED for tandem flight under any circustances.
I found a tech bulletin to inspect the crossbar bolt on falcon 225 with 6061 leading edge upgrade
http://www.willswing.com/news.asp?newsSeek=487
The falcon 1 225 is 59lbs, the falcon 2 225 is 61 lbs
the April 2005 rev 9 Falcon 2 manual states:
The recommended hook in pilot weight range for the Falcon 1 is:
Falcon 225: 185 - 440 lbs.
The recommended hook in pilot weight range for the Falcon 2 is:
Falcon 2 225: 185 - 300 lbs.
The recommended hook in pilot weight range for the Falcon Tandem is:
Falcon Tandem 185 - 500 lbs.
The optimum hook in pilot weight range for the Falcon 1 is:
Falcon 225: 230 - 300 lbs.
The optimum hook in pilot weight range for the Falcon 2 is:
Falcon 2 225: 240 - 300 lbs.
The optimum hook in pilot weight range for the Falcon Tandem is:
Falcon Tandem 240 - 500 lbs.
Note in particular that while the Falcon 1 225 was considered suitable for light duty tandem
flight, the Falcon 2 225 is NOT APPROVED for tandem flight under any circustances.
I found a tech bulletin to inspect the crossbar bolt on falcon 225 with 6061 leading edge upgrade
http://www.willswing.com/news.asp?newsSeek=487
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addicted2climbing
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:50 pm
Hey DHmartens,
Thanks for the info on the Tech Buletin. I will check it out. However I did have a sail off inspection a few months ago and Andy found no serious issues. I think swapping the leading edges back to 7075 would save me 6 or so pounds. Also my wheel system is really heavy and I recently bought some new wheels in hopes that helps. I may hold off on the leading edge swap until I do another inspection since I have no idea how to pull a sail. Might be worth learning this summer one day.
Thanks again everyone,
Marc
Thanks for the info on the Tech Buletin. I will check it out. However I did have a sail off inspection a few months ago and Andy found no serious issues. I think swapping the leading edges back to 7075 would save me 6 or so pounds. Also my wheel system is really heavy and I recently bought some new wheels in hopes that helps. I may hold off on the leading edge swap until I do another inspection since I have no idea how to pull a sail. Might be worth learning this summer one day.
Thanks again everyone,
Marc