life insurance
Moderator: Chip
life insurance
Hello mine hang gliding friends, I'm wondering if anybody off you guys have life insurance with covers hang gliding.I have one for 150000.00$ and I pay $770 a year what seems to be kind high for a non-physical sport
Smile now Cry later
MAX
MAX
Re: life insurance
I'm sure that it doesn't have anything to do whether or not it has physical activity in it; it's probably the danger factor in it.max wrote:Hello mine hang gliding friends, I'm wondering if anybody off you guys have life insurance with covers hang gliding.I have one for 150000.00$ and I pay $770 a year what seems to be kind high for a non-physical sport
Sure it is dangerous but is it more dangerous than riding a motorcycle or scuba diving or many other dangerous sports where people don't have problems getting life insurance. i wonder what the accident rate is per capatia is the some as the other sports, I'm pretty sure George might have the answer.George let me know
Smile now Cry later
MAX
MAX
I have a whole-life policy with Northwestern Mutual. You probably know that a "whole-life" policy has a higher premium than a "term" policy. In addition to the death benefit, a whole-life policy is an inbvestment that builds value with time. Eventually, you can take money out as loans which you never have to repay, because the policy's earnings pay the interest It is a way to diversify your assets.
They have a pretty informed approach to hang gliding. Their questionnaire asks
1.whether you do ground skimming, or high altitude flight.
2. Whether you aerotow, truck tow.
3. What your rating is, etc.
When I got the policy, I was a H-3, and they charged me a higher premium with the understanding that it would be reduced when I got my advanced rating. When I got H-4, they reduced the premium.
My agent's name is David Katz 213 482 5100 x 583
They have a pretty informed approach to hang gliding. Their questionnaire asks
1.whether you do ground skimming, or high altitude flight.
2. Whether you aerotow, truck tow.
3. What your rating is, etc.
When I got the policy, I was a H-3, and they charged me a higher premium with the understanding that it would be reduced when I got my advanced rating. When I got H-4, they reduced the premium.
My agent's name is David Katz 213 482 5100 x 583
Soar With Prudent Passion
Larry Chamblee
Larry Chamblee
As someone who has done hang gliding, motorcycle riding, and scuba diving I definitely feel that hang gliding is more dangerous. However, I still enjoy all three (even though it's been several years since I've been scuba diving).max wrote:Sure it is dangerous but is it more dangerous than riding a motorcycle or scuba diving or many other dangerous sports where people don't have problems getting life insurance. i wonder what the accident rate is per capatia is the some as the other sports, I'm pretty sure George might have the answer.George let me know
Unfortunately, I don't as I don't know the rates for the other sports. You can calculate it by taking the total number of participants and dividing that by the total fatalities (average) per year. That gives you the rough numbers. You could also calculate the risk of death per hour if you had some idea what the average number of hours per year the average participant participated. Getting those numbers is the issue. You can get them for hang gliding by spending some time perusing the magazine, the OZ Report, etc. For the other sports, I don't know. I'm sure they are available. Heck, if you wanted to get them from USHPA, you probably could. (They can give you number of members and number of fatalities per year. That's not right, but it gets you a rough number that is probably not too far off.) I assume the other organizations can do the same.max wrote:Sure it is dangerous but is it more dangerous than riding a motorcycle or scuba diving or many other dangerous sports where people don't have problems getting life insurance. i wonder what the accident rate is per capatia is the some as the other sports, I'm pretty sure George might have the answer.George let me know
As for insurance, almost everyone should have either Term or nothing. (Usually term.) It is cheaper for the same coverage, or more coverage for the same money. Only rare circumstances make it reasonable to use Universal or Whole life. (You can get better return on your investment elsewhere - they aren't that good an investment vehicle.) Disclaimer: I have one of those "odd" circumstances. I have a whole life policy for a special purpose. But for my normal insurance needs, I use term.
As for HG, New York Life gave me the whole life and charged me extra for hang gliding for the first 10 years. Then it went back to the normal rate.
The Term policy was tougher. If you can get it through a group, where they might not ask about hang gliding and might not have an exclusion (yes there are such) then that's your best bet. I can't help with specific companies, unfortunately. Sorry. My agent in Florida (don't ask) got me a policy that isn't sold any more. The company is doing fine, but they changed the new policies.
Keep asking around. This is a question that keeps poping up every few years and there usually is someone who has a good policy and can turn you on to what you need. But it does take a while. Maybe ask on the OZ Report? www.ozreport.com then go to the online forum.
Of course, if you get insurance at work, that can often be the best way. Even if you could get better for less elsewhere, usually the work stuff covers hang gliding without an increase in cost. Worth checking, anyway.
Good luck.
OH, and I just remembered. A few years ago, I had access to the then-current SCUBA numbers (I don't now.) When I ran them, it looked like SCUBA was slightly more dangerous per participant than hang gliding, but less so per hour.
And like hang gliding, if you die in SCUBA, it is usually your mistake that caused it. Not so on motorcycles. A very large majority of the deaths there are the legal fault of someone other than the MC rider. One can argue if legal fault is the right criteria, but still, it is clear that you have more control of your own risk-factor flying or diving than riding a motorcycle. Not too many people die in a hang glider because someone else hit them from behind or from the side. Same with SCUBA diving.
Fly High; Fly Far; Fly Safe -- George
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paul donahue
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:54 pm
Per participant, per hour, per event? Differences matter.paul donahue wrote:a couple of years back Matt Taber of lookout mtn in georgia, told me that scuba and hang gliding have nearly identical statistics for death rates.
Example:
Cars and commercial airlines have almost the same death rates per passenger-hour of travel. But since you go 10 times (about) faster in the airplane, you spend 1/10 as much time in it for a given trip. That makes airplanes 10 times safer when you ask the all important question: "If I'm going from A to B, what is safer?".
Fly High; Fly Far; Fly Safe -- George
motorcycles. A very large majority of the deaths there are the legal fault of someone other than the MC rider.
As a former long-time rider I was interested in this statement. (George wisely tempers it with legal) I doubt the statement is supportable and there doesn't seem to be research -- not surprising, because the motorcycle industry may not want to get into it. It appears the high number of deaths is simply the fact that you fall off and hit your head. �.e., there is no protective cage, airbag, and so on.
I always felt most motorcyclists killed themselves. They didn;t know what they were doing (see countersteering in link below), they used lousy judgement, they discredited judgement as interfering with the joy of riding, they drove drunk, and they blamed little old ladies for their own near-death experiences.
I say all this because I think a long career in hang gliding is to be as unlike the average motorcyclist as possible. (No doubt a hang gliding motorcyclist, by virtue of HG experience, is an entirely different creature).
Ah and yes, great job on the fire, lads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle ... _accidents
As a former long-time rider I was interested in this statement. (George wisely tempers it with legal) I doubt the statement is supportable and there doesn't seem to be research -- not surprising, because the motorcycle industry may not want to get into it. It appears the high number of deaths is simply the fact that you fall off and hit your head. �.e., there is no protective cage, airbag, and so on.
I always felt most motorcyclists killed themselves. They didn;t know what they were doing (see countersteering in link below), they used lousy judgement, they discredited judgement as interfering with the joy of riding, they drove drunk, and they blamed little old ladies for their own near-death experiences.
I say all this because I think a long career in hang gliding is to be as unlike the average motorcyclist as possible. (No doubt a hang gliding motorcyclist, by virtue of HG experience, is an entirely different creature).
Ah and yes, great job on the fire, lads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle ... _accidents
A friend of mine used to teach motorcycle safety in the UK. There, you are (or were at the time) required to take such a course before you can get a motorcycle license. When he moved here, he dug up the statistics for the US. They aren't that different here than in the UK. (Note that in the UK, the left/right thing is reversed, of course.)
The two largest causes of death of a motorcyclist on public roads at the time my friend checked were:
1) Motorcyclist goes straight through an intersection legally. Auto/truck makes left turn unlawfully in front of the motorcycle, or broadsiding it.
2) Motorcyclist is making left turn legally (with green arrow or green light, etc.) Auto/truck illegally goes through intersection striking the motorcycle.
These two account for more fatalities than all other kinds combined. In the UK, it is/was about 90%!
The third or fourth most common is: Motorcyclist goes straight through intersection legally. Auto/truck runs light and hits cyclist.
Note that the two most dangerous ones involve left turns (right in the UK). Either the car or the motorcycle. And three of the most common ones involve intersections.
The ones people normally think about: Weather, poor surface, etc, do happen. But the ones above are much more common.
A Story: Years ago, a friend of mine was driving down a two-lane highway on his MC. A large auto (Cadillac or Lincoln according to my friend) passed him on the left. The driver looked over at him, then flipped him off. Then the automobile swerved rapidly into my friend. Luckily, he had somewhere to go. He went into the iceplant on the side of the road and didn't get hurt much. The interesting part is that an unrelated group of bikers was just 1/4 mile or so behind. They passed my friend, saw he was ok, and then passed the car rapidly. As they passed the car, the person on the back-seat pulled a jar of peanut butter out of the backpack hanging on the rear of the bike. (S)he threw the peanut butter jar (they were glass back then) at the windshield of the auto, cracking it and smearing it with Peanut Butter. Then they slowed down and went back to help my friend.
Yea, that's not typical. But it shows that on a MC you are at the mercy of others who don't really get it, or don't want to get it, or worse. For the most part that isn't true in hang gliding.
And yes, I deliberatly used the phrase legal fault. I didn't want to get into the argument about what "fault" means, so I used the legal definition. One can argue what constitutes fault in a non-legal sense, of course. But using any reasonable definition, the fact remains that you are more at risk from someone else's errors (fault) on a MC than you are on a HG. Heck, most long-time motorcyclists know this intuitively, even though they might not put it this way. That's why the phrase "Ride like you are invisible" is often considered MC wisdom.
As for the research, I don't know where specifically he got the data, but note this: I said DEATHS. Every vehicle death on public streets gets some kind of a determination of fault. Sometimes this might only be from the officer involved, of course. Usually it is more carefully determined. This data is collected. Insurance companies (among others) have access to it. I assume my friend knew where to find it. In the UK, it is part of the course that he teaches, of course. Can't protect yourself if you don't know what is likely to get you, eh?
And the link above talks about causes, not fault. There may not have been much in the way of studies on causes, but there sure are statistics on legal fault. That's another reason I used that term.
The two largest causes of death of a motorcyclist on public roads at the time my friend checked were:
1) Motorcyclist goes straight through an intersection legally. Auto/truck makes left turn unlawfully in front of the motorcycle, or broadsiding it.
2) Motorcyclist is making left turn legally (with green arrow or green light, etc.) Auto/truck illegally goes through intersection striking the motorcycle.
These two account for more fatalities than all other kinds combined. In the UK, it is/was about 90%!
The third or fourth most common is: Motorcyclist goes straight through intersection legally. Auto/truck runs light and hits cyclist.
Note that the two most dangerous ones involve left turns (right in the UK). Either the car or the motorcycle. And three of the most common ones involve intersections.
The ones people normally think about: Weather, poor surface, etc, do happen. But the ones above are much more common.
A Story: Years ago, a friend of mine was driving down a two-lane highway on his MC. A large auto (Cadillac or Lincoln according to my friend) passed him on the left. The driver looked over at him, then flipped him off. Then the automobile swerved rapidly into my friend. Luckily, he had somewhere to go. He went into the iceplant on the side of the road and didn't get hurt much. The interesting part is that an unrelated group of bikers was just 1/4 mile or so behind. They passed my friend, saw he was ok, and then passed the car rapidly. As they passed the car, the person on the back-seat pulled a jar of peanut butter out of the backpack hanging on the rear of the bike. (S)he threw the peanut butter jar (they were glass back then) at the windshield of the auto, cracking it and smearing it with Peanut Butter. Then they slowed down and went back to help my friend.
Yea, that's not typical. But it shows that on a MC you are at the mercy of others who don't really get it, or don't want to get it, or worse. For the most part that isn't true in hang gliding.
And yes, I deliberatly used the phrase legal fault. I didn't want to get into the argument about what "fault" means, so I used the legal definition. One can argue what constitutes fault in a non-legal sense, of course. But using any reasonable definition, the fact remains that you are more at risk from someone else's errors (fault) on a MC than you are on a HG. Heck, most long-time motorcyclists know this intuitively, even though they might not put it this way. That's why the phrase "Ride like you are invisible" is often considered MC wisdom.
As for the research, I don't know where specifically he got the data, but note this: I said DEATHS. Every vehicle death on public streets gets some kind of a determination of fault. Sometimes this might only be from the officer involved, of course. Usually it is more carefully determined. This data is collected. Insurance companies (among others) have access to it. I assume my friend knew where to find it. In the UK, it is part of the course that he teaches, of course. Can't protect yourself if you don't know what is likely to get you, eh?
And the link above talks about causes, not fault. There may not have been much in the way of studies on causes, but there sure are statistics on legal fault. That's another reason I used that term.
Fly High; Fly Far; Fly Safe -- George
Some brief info for what it's worth. . .
Since I work for a large corporation, I am insured through the Company's group policy with Minnesota Life.
I confirmed with Minnesota Life that I am indeed covered under my basic life and supplemental life policies even in the event of death from hazardous activities, including hang gliding.
(i.e. There are no specific exclusiuons for hazardous activities.)
However, the agent said that participation in such activities would void benefits under my AD&D (Accidental Death and Dismemberment) policy, which is independent of the life insurance policies. There is an exlcusion clause that specifies hang gliding as a prohibited activity, among others.
-Alex
Since I work for a large corporation, I am insured through the Company's group policy with Minnesota Life.
I confirmed with Minnesota Life that I am indeed covered under my basic life and supplemental life policies even in the event of death from hazardous activities, including hang gliding.
(i.e. There are no specific exclusiuons for hazardous activities.)
However, the agent said that participation in such activities would void benefits under my AD&D (Accidental Death and Dismemberment) policy, which is independent of the life insurance policies. There is an exlcusion clause that specifies hang gliding as a prohibited activity, among others.
-Alex
