On Monday, Dec. 1st. Andy Beem notified me that all the gate locks had been vandalized. I went up and changed our lock so you'll need to check the "members only" section of this website for the new combination or call Windsports.
Take photos of any offroaders you see and email me the pics and I'll get them to the Sheriff. I'll be setting up a couple of sting operations in the coming weeks in the hopes of catching this guy. Email me if you're interested in helping with the effort. I need to borrow a video camera that shoots in the dark
J. Stebbins donated a new windsock for launch, so someone get me the frame down from launch and I'll install it.
NEW COMBO ON GATE LOCK
Moderator: Chip
If we had bought a motion sensor camera when the idea came up a few months ago, the perpetrator would probably be serving his first year of a 2 year jail sentence and paid a $500,000 fine for vandalizing property on federal lands. And just as we are reading this post he is probably bending over in the jail shower to pick up the soap and in a few moments about to realize he has just made a mistake worse than vandalizing the lock.
http://www.cabelas.com/spodw-1/0057187.shtml
Bushnell Trail Sentry 5.0 Megapixel Scouting with Night Vision and Solar Panel
Or even just a video surveillance sticker might work to deter them.
http://www.cabelas.com/spodw-1/0057187.shtml
Bushnell Trail Sentry 5.0 Megapixel Scouting with Night Vision and Solar Panel
Or even just a video surveillance sticker might work to deter them.
I was trying to find the penalty and found this site. If damage is under $400 then a Fine less than $1,000 and may have jail time less than 1 year.(1st time offender) Since we have been glued several times he could be a repeat offender in that case the fine is not to exceed $5,000. But the lock is on federal land which could be a different jurisdiction and require a federal prosecutor.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1006746/Req ... d-property
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1006746/Req ... d-property
Doug;
I've been looking at these things for about 6 months now and they're almost good enough to purchase for our purposes. Only the most expensive one on the market is likely to work due to the need to eliminate the red infrared light, video capabilities, long battery life, viewing range, and invisible flash.
We're looking at around $750. to get one that will really do everything we need. Once purchased, and after we get the bastard(s). We can donate it to the Forest Service and score some big points with their enforcement division. They'd always loan it back to us if we need it. Before I recommend spending that kind of money, I'd like to first do a couple stakeouts and see if we can get a prize. There are only a few people in the club that would enjoy this kind of work, so if any of you are out there, let me know and we'll go up and give it a try. If anyone can find me a video camera to borrow, that will shoot at night without a light, I can go up there right away.
I've been looking at these things for about 6 months now and they're almost good enough to purchase for our purposes. Only the most expensive one on the market is likely to work due to the need to eliminate the red infrared light, video capabilities, long battery life, viewing range, and invisible flash.
We're looking at around $750. to get one that will really do everything we need. Once purchased, and after we get the bastard(s). We can donate it to the Forest Service and score some big points with their enforcement division. They'd always loan it back to us if we need it. Before I recommend spending that kind of money, I'd like to first do a couple stakeouts and see if we can get a prize. There are only a few people in the club that would enjoy this kind of work, so if any of you are out there, let me know and we'll go up and give it a try. If anyone can find me a video camera to borrow, that will shoot at night without a light, I can go up there right away.
Much as I admire Joe's dedication, I have to say I think trying to catch these vandal(s), alone, in the dark, miles from any help, is something I would NOT recommend.
At least take someone with you, preferably someone huge and scary looking.
And if not taking firearms, then at least a taser or pepper spray or a machete or something.
Seriously. What if getting caught for vandalism would be their "third-strike"?
At least take someone with you, preferably someone huge and scary looking.
And if not taking firearms, then at least a taser or pepper spray or a machete or something.
Seriously. What if getting caught for vandalism would be their "third-strike"?
We should rethink this before we start a clan war we cannot win. We don't know if its an individual or a group of people. If they have radios more of them could show up.
1) what is the actual damage done to the lock. Is it destroyed or is it merely coated with frosting or a honey like super glue glaze that can be removed with nail polish remover? Is this vandalism or a prank.
2) Is the law fair? Ultimately if the lands are public then they are owned by the people(including offroaders). The people hire a government to administer the lands. In our case the lands have been closed because its too expensive to have an adequate patrol on duty to protect it. We can show sympathy but abide by the rules.
This problem is not unique. In the south deer hunters break the forest service locks open and hunt regardless.
We could coat inside of metal bar with plastic ring that would break thus showing a forced entry if the broken lock is missing. The plastic would be damaged.
We could use an easily broken lock, allowing them in if they force it. They are more easily identified once in the forest. Keep 5 spare locks ready to go or in trucks, also keep nail polish remover and a saw in each truck.
If someone does confront them here is a wiki on citizens arrest.
Bring a role of duct tape?
http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Citizen%27s-Arrest
Don't question them once they are in custody.
If we are confronted by an off roader show them a paper copy of the rules of our access permit. Give them a google maps page showing the neasest off road trails. Get a cell phone cam picture of their face and license plate.
Just some ideas.
Doug
Here is a photo of a man steeling an infrared security camera. If you recognize him call the Modesto police.
1) what is the actual damage done to the lock. Is it destroyed or is it merely coated with frosting or a honey like super glue glaze that can be removed with nail polish remover? Is this vandalism or a prank.
2) Is the law fair? Ultimately if the lands are public then they are owned by the people(including offroaders). The people hire a government to administer the lands. In our case the lands have been closed because its too expensive to have an adequate patrol on duty to protect it. We can show sympathy but abide by the rules.
This problem is not unique. In the south deer hunters break the forest service locks open and hunt regardless.
We could coat inside of metal bar with plastic ring that would break thus showing a forced entry if the broken lock is missing. The plastic would be damaged.
We could use an easily broken lock, allowing them in if they force it. They are more easily identified once in the forest. Keep 5 spare locks ready to go or in trucks, also keep nail polish remover and a saw in each truck.
If someone does confront them here is a wiki on citizens arrest.
Bring a role of duct tape?
http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Citizen%27s-Arrest
Don't question them once they are in custody.
If we are confronted by an off roader show them a paper copy of the rules of our access permit. Give them a google maps page showing the neasest off road trails. Get a cell phone cam picture of their face and license plate.
Just some ideas.
Doug
Here is a photo of a man steeling an infrared security camera. If you recognize him call the Modesto police.
Re: Vandals
Under normal circumstances that might be the case. However, this lock is a safety device. If it was super-glued shut when the FS tried to get in to fight the fires a while back, you'd better believe the perp would go to jail if caught. And if someone died because the fire-fighters couldn't get in....Don wrote:Only in my dreams will the A-Hole(s) that are vandalizing our lock ever spend a minute in jail or pay a fine.
No Judge is going to put someone in jail or pay a fine of any substance for putting crazy glue on a lock.
Yes, it is public land. But they are DESTROYING stuff on public land. They are dumping, tearing up the vegetation, etc. We, the public, have decided (via our representatives) that we don't want this behavior. Now we enforce that decision. One can argue the best way to do that, but unless you feel that the public cannot legally or morally protect it's own property, then it is silly to argue about the fairness of the law. It is perfectly legal for them to WALK in. It is perfectly legal for them to ride in on mountain bikes. Only vehicles large enough to tear stuff up and carry loads of trash are being blocked. If they hadn't done those anti-social things, the road would still be open.dhmartens wrote:Is the law fair? Ultimately if the lands are public then they are owned by the people(including offroaders). The people hire a government to administer the lands. In our case the lands have been closed because its too expensive to have an adequate patrol on duty to protect it. We can show sympathy but abide by the rules.
And regardless, from a purely selfish point of view, there is this: If this gets to be a big deal with the FS, we could lose out. They could just seal up the gate. We do NOT want that, and will do what is necessary to prevent it.
So, it is up to us to solve this. If someone has any other ideas, on how to do that, please let everyone here know. Otherwise, I commend Joe for his efforts, and second the suggestion to be careful and prepared. Better a photo of the perps and their license plate than confrontation. Let the guys with guns that are trained for this stuff do the actual arrest.
Fly High; Fly Far; Fly Safe -- George
Excellent post George.
Another way to stop the problem may be to look at their motivation for doing this. Is it a hermit up there? An inside job from a forest service employee? An off roader that has been riding here for 35 years and is mad that privilege is gone and they are doing this against the forest service? or are they mad that only SHGA gets passage and they are doing this against us?
I just had an idea since we are "partners" with the forest service we could have some type of badge on the back of every vehicle. They might see we are forest service as they walk up to us to try and get the combination and might better understand the situation.
Here are a few ideas for badges:
http://www.angelesvolunteers.org/
Another way to stop the problem may be to look at their motivation for doing this. Is it a hermit up there? An inside job from a forest service employee? An off roader that has been riding here for 35 years and is mad that privilege is gone and they are doing this against the forest service? or are they mad that only SHGA gets passage and they are doing this against us?
I just had an idea since we are "partners" with the forest service we could have some type of badge on the back of every vehicle. They might see we are forest service as they walk up to us to try and get the combination and might better understand the situation.
Here are a few ideas for badges:
http://www.angelesvolunteers.org/
True airhead. He could be very intelligent and I was imagining how they might be pulling this off. Its probably a quick hit and run that takes less than 10 seconds with a driver and a runner. They could even have a plan to hide in the bushes next to the road for a pickup if confronted and a chase on foot takes place. If this is the case we will need a sniper rifle with a night scope. A shot in the leg will make him easier to chase down and a shot in the tire will have the same effect for the escape vehicle. Also a camera at the stop sign leading into the canyon could narrow down who it is after 2 more incidents. With only 2 entrances to the canyon they could also be boxed in.
If these people have half a brain (which is unlikely), they indeed may be reading this discussion. I would suggest that the admin remove the entire thread and let's take it private.
Chip - isn't there a way to create a private section in the forum that's only viewable with a login ID? Or maybe an email distribution is the way to go.
Count me in....
DT
daveteal@sbcglobal.net
Chip - isn't there a way to create a private section in the forum that's only viewable with a login ID? Or maybe an email distribution is the way to go.
Count me in....
DT
daveteal@sbcglobal.net
DT you're right. Any specific detailed operational data should be on a need to know basis only. They could have infiltrated the SHGA membership section, they might have had the combination at one time. From now on we should use the "Cone of Silence"
Hopefully we will shortly just hear the good news of the result or a posting like "Hey someone is selling a kidney on ebay, I wonder whos it was?'
Doug
Hopefully we will shortly just hear the good news of the result or a posting like "Hey someone is selling a kidney on ebay, I wonder whos it was?'
Doug