Great News! Clear Skies Ahead

JT · Post by JT » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:44 pm

I did a survey about a year ago to see how many active members there are in the club. I did it again today. My criteria for active is that the member status be "Go Fly" (not expired) and not be dead or otherwise unable to pay dues. Last year I counted 148. At the moment, we are at 138. There are a few (3) that I consider late to renew but still active that I didn't count. In any case, at the present rate, we should be able to look forward to fewer accidents and near-miss reports as the summer approaches.

Don · Post by **Don** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:09 pm

A simplistic view of this implies that membership is/has declined - rather obvious. More importantly is the question of why we lost a net 7 or 10 members? Obviously three passed away in the last year.

I would be curious how many members did not renew, how long they had been members, and then some idea of the reason for non-renewal.

Partially on topic - ever wonder how many people DO NOT join the club due to the out-dated $100 initiation fee? Would we gain members if this fee was abolished?

How would the members feel about abolishing the fee for future members if each existing member's membership was extended one year?

JD · Post by JD » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:37 pm

Don wrote:...........How would the members feel about abolishing the fee for future members if each existing member's membership was extended one year?

I wouldn't mind. Don and I had discussed this when we met at Andy Jackson before I even soloed at Kagel. I decided that I would join the SHGA if I had an epic flight there and felt comfortable landing in the old version of the LZ. Both of these came to pass.

I have been trying to promote the SHGA through my videos and by speaking to pilots who may potentially benefit from belonging. Considering the overall state of the economy and perhaps the lingering fears from last year's accidents, I'd say we were doing pretty good. But I'm not one to rest on my laurels so let's continue to promote the sports and the club any way we can.

lswendt · Post by **lswendt** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:51 pm

So..it's been more than a dozen years since I joined the Club. Dues were lower, initiation fee the same. Someone else can do the economic extrapolation to figure out what that $100 is worth in today's dollar value.

The dues were raised several years ago. It took a majority vote of the ENTIRE Club to make that change.

We also had over 250 active members.

Do you really think it's a one-time fee of $100 that drives membership away?

lw

Fat Fred · Post by **Fat Fred** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:29 pm

Keep in mind that club dues at Crestline are $100 each and every year. They have no initiation fee but it is $40 per year more than ours. Our intitiation fee is also payable over time.

-Fred-

Don · Post by **Don** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:34 pm

lswendt wrote: Do you really think it's a one-time fee of $100 that drives membership away?

lw

In a word "YES"!

I belong to numerous (5 besides SHGA) clubs. The only real reason to be a member is to support them. If any of them had an initiation fee I wouldn't bother to join (basically telling them F-You) - I would just pay the day use fee (most do NOT even have a day use fee). I realize that a person doesn't have to "join" a club to financially support them, but I would find the existence of an initiation fee to be a reason to second guess my thought of a financial contribution.

Am I unusual

- I suspect most people would say yes.

Based upon my understanding - the initiation fee has long outlived it's intended purpose. It probably hangs on due to two reasons - first, inertia and second, people have an attitude that "...since I had to pay it everyone else should have to pay it."

The Club's daily use fee of $5 combined with the $100 initiation fee makes it unlikely (from a strictly financial point of view) that anyone would join unless they regularly flew Kagel.

I remember Chip(?) voicing some thought about a "group membership" with other local clubs - like Santa Barbara & Crestline. Although nothing ever came of that concept - SHGA's initiation fee would have been a "road block".

Is the initiation fee a SIGNIFICANT factor - No.

I just like to periodically question why things are the way they are - when you do, sometimes you see things that you think should be changed.

JT · Post by JT » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:24 pm

I suspect that some/many of the lapsed members were one-time tandem students who paid all the fees because they intended to become regulars. There are quite few photos I've put up for people that I've never seen. Some are weekdays only but all of them probably aren't.

Many, many serious pilots have, moved, aged, lost interest or were distracted/derailed by their other pursuits. Some of our members just don't pay when they aren't flying. I've identified 5-6 of those, now. That would mean that we've only lost 4-5: 3 dead and 2 others that I just realized have left the area.

The point is that there aren't as many of us as there were even as little as 6 years ago, when I returned.

Windsports keeps bringing new members in. The most troublesome and serious problem is that those newbies that paid up stop coming back. Why is that? The $160 is already spent. They probably bought a lot of expensive equipment. Were they frightened by the altitude?

JD · Post by JD » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:58 am

JT wrote:.............Were they frightened by the altitude?

Hang gliding is a time consuming sport in order to work one's way up to a Hang 3 rating and requires an ongoing commitment in order to keep one's skills adequate to be able to fly some of the turbulent conditions we often experience when the lift is good. Oddly, this recession may prove to be a boon to the sport, as a lot of folks around the LA area may now have the time on their hands that it takes. There is a lot of idle equipment out there that can be placed in service. Everything I own is second-hand and some of it was acquired at bargain prices. That's the only way I could afford to re-enter this sport and have decent equipment. I sense an opportunity to perhaps use the current economic slow-down to grow the club. We get a lot of flyable days, annually and we're right here in town.

One possibility may be to have an SHGA account on YouTube and use its promotional tools to broadcast it to a wider audience. We now have a member who is an aspiring professional videographer. I have been informed by some people that my videos have drawn them into the sport and I wouldn't be surprised if others have done the same.

Do we want to grow the club? If so, how far and who do we wish to seek out? This seems to have become a sport of re-entering 50-somethings like myself but I see a lot of younger people entering for the first time.

dhmartens · Post by **dhmartens** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:05 am

I would vote to drop the $100 fee, and for a extra year for existing members. I also know if you add up the initiation fees over the years it would pay for the new Pavilion. The membership may have dropped from people retiring from the sport i.e. age 65. or the other reasons given. I was hearing that the flight schools were booked solid this year much of the time so I think things are going well despite the high pressures recently. I think the youtube marketing is working well as it shows the sport as it is and not by the slanted media that makes us all look crazy - OK we are crazy. People trying to be cheap in the sport take up paragliding. Hanging with the lesson program longer seems more expensive but it actually makes the sport cheaper because you can learn to better avoid accidents and any related expensive medical costs. If we had a paraglider on the BOD they might recommend to waive the initiation fees for new paraglider pilots. Should we actively seek more paragliders? Saturday I followed a blue paraglider out to the 2200 and then I went to west towers so I am elated with having them around at the moment.

Doug

Rome Dodson · Post by **Rome Dodson** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:36 pm

at 65 they are just kids!! rome

OSCAR · Post by **OSCAR** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:36 pm

That's right Rome just kids. And may we all live as long as you and fly to great heights

Fat Fred · Post by **Fat Fred** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:07 pm

Per Jims post:

"I suspect that some/many of the lapsed members were one-time tandem students who paid all the fees because they intended to become regulars. "

Just to clear the air a little on this, one time tandem students do not pay any SHGA member fees or sign up as members. Possibly this was not Jims intended meaning though.

-Fred-

JT · Post by JT » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:05 pm

Just to clear the air a little on this, one time tandem students do not pay any SHGA member fees or sign up as members. Possibly this was not Jim's intended meaning, though.

You are correct, Fred, that isn't my meaning. I meant students that get off the beach and take a tandem lesson or two or even make it to their solo and then quit. By the way, when I came back, the initiation and regular membership fees were collected from me before my tandem. Maybe because Greblo knew I would only be taking one.

So, has anyone talked to one of the ephemeral pilots and heard why they never return? Did they take their skills to Crestline? Was San Diego too far to come up every weekend? Were they intimidated by our mountain? By us?

In order to stabilize and, hopefully, increase our membership, we need to know what is causing the newest members to leave and whether it's something we can change.

Don · Post by **Don** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:10 am

I have periodically discussed this topic with Greblo on several occasions. While I don't pretend to be an expert here is my understanding.

The reasons are "all over the place". You name it - it applies to someone.

Work distractions / relocations, going back to school, came to Sylmar for the world-renown training (no plug intended - just the facts), and my personal belief - "one more thing I can claim I've done" (basically a couple solo flights and move on to the next activity).

From personal experience and general observation - the crowd can be intimating. You have the H4/Comp group that land, sit around talking (Ok, and drinking) and having a good time. Then you have several other smaller groups - some based upon skill progression/level. While some new pilots can break down the unintentional walls - it appears fairly uncommon.

Several attempts have been made to make new pilots feel welcome - the membership photos and The Falcon League are two the come to mind.

I believe this grouping of individuals is natural in larger clubs. People group up based upon shared/mutual interest within the sport of HGing.

Sylmar Hang Gliding Association

Great News! Clear Skies Ahead

Great News! Clear Skies Ahead

Decline

Re: Decline

Yes

retire at 65'

at 65 they are just kids

Reasons