Crash on Kagel part 2

Mike Blankenhorn · Post by **Mike Blankenhorn** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:47 pm

This is what happened from my perspective:

I was enjoying my best flight from Kagel so far, ridgesoaring up and down the mountain, over launch and around again. The scenery was spectacular with misty beams of sun light bursting through the clouds, it was beautiful.
Then everything went to shit.
Soaring above launch once again I was tying to get more altitude while dangerously close to the rear of the lift band. I had not been paying attention to increasing wind speeds and was blown back a bit. Now realizing that I had no choice but try to land the glider as I could not penetrate the wind, I did not unzip since I could not take my hand off the base tube. A hopeful somewhat gentle belly landing quickly turned into being slammed into the ground by the rotor. I remember hitting and then being helped walking to the van but only bits and pieces of being helped out of the harness.
Complacency was a definite contributing factor. When I first learned from Rob McKenzie we had a conversation about just that.
Until I am able to fly again, I will take Janyce's advice and sit and listen.

OSCAR · Post by **OSCAR** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:40 pm

Just a thought ,Next time If there is a next time don't panic try flying at an angle out towards the lowest point of the ridge the third bowl in this case while pulling in the ground will fall away and it will keep you out of the rotor until you can get back in front of the ridge.and if you can't do that pull-in as hard as you can keep your speed up and dive it in with speed to punch through the turbulence round out and flair just above ground Preferably uphill .that's what I would do if it were me.Get well soon.

JD · Post by JD » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:30 pm

OSCAR wrote:Just a thought............

It's a nice thought Oscar but in Mike's situation he was probably screwed once he got behind the ridge with minimal lift or altitude to spare. Falcons have such bad high speed glide that in this situation if you pull in the bar you actually go backwards! Also, no matter how smooth the winds aloft may be at 20 mph, they are NEVER smooth on top of Kagel when it's blowing that fast. It isn't even smooth in front of launch at that velocity. I've buzzed launch enough times to know this fairly well.

Even assuming that Mike had the skill to land his Falcon on top of Kagel with his harness zipped up. In all likelihood he would have then gotten picked up and ground looped by the surface wind and flipped over. It may have been harmless but maybe not. In the past 6 months there have been too many low hour pilots between here and Crestline having bad crashes on Falcons. It's no fault of the glider. But the glider can lead one into a false sense of security. Don't let your guard down.

Jonathan

OSCAR · Post by **OSCAR** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:03 pm

Ok-- so what would you suggest the proper course of action should be (

and stop flying the glider) And be specific.I would think getting away from the ground and away from the rotor would be top priority.I was flying my F2-225 that same day on the same ridge with no penetration issues .

JD · Post by JD » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:45 pm

OSCAR wrote:.............penetration issues .

Viagra may have worked. But seriously, Oscar, You had no penetration issues because you were in the lift band. Mike apparently flew behind the lift band and into a compression zone where there is not only no lift but the air is now moving faster as well. Mike had plenty of speed shortly before his crash while traversing the ridge. I lost sight of him when I headed West.

I'm not Mike and I'm not suggesting anyone follow my lead either. If I had gotten caught in that situation in my Falcon 3 195 I might have dove for the deck and gotten below the winds and tried to skim my way back out front. Alternatively, I might have headed over the back toward the dam and landed at the base of the dam. Had I really been pinned down I might have tried to top land between the doughnut and the windsock mound. Don't forget that I weigh a bit less than Mike.

It's best not to get into the situation in the fist place. It's really tough to get out.

OSCAR · Post by **OSCAR** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:07 pm

Good suggestions I like the heading out towards the dam idea.The last thing I would do is try to fly into a strong headwind .I think crabbing sideways maintaining altitude slightly pulled in so you don't drift-back any further but also not dropping behind the ridge .would be my choice heading towards the dam LZ .but still trying to get in front of the ridge . I wonder what Joe would do.

greblo · Post by **greblo** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:41 am

Oscar,
Your post has me a little concerned that you might believe that you will make better headway against the wind if you don't try to head directly into it. If one cannot penetrate a direct head wind, pointing the nose left or right of the wind line (crabbing), will only cause the glider to travel backwards more quickly. This could be very dangerous. In other words, given a steady headwind, pointing your nose directly into it will give the best penetration. Aircraft are not like sailboats that can penetrate a headwind better by "tacking".

Here's an example. If you're flying directly into a 25 mph headwind and you're airspeed is 25 mph, you're stationary over the ground. If the next moment you point your nose 30 degrees to the right, you will begin to go right, of course, but you will also begin to travel backwards (downwind) in relationship to your where you were before.

The only reason to choose a crab angle would be if the ridge line to the left or right is not as far in front of you, or if you suspect the winds are lighter to the side, or if you anticipate lift to the side.

addicted2climbing · Post by **addicted2climbing** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:52 am

Hello Mike,

Best of luck in your recovery. Being a beginner its good to hear about things like this, break them down and learn from them.

This may sound a bit off topic, but I wonder if it would benifit HG pilots to have some background flying R/C Slope Gliders. This way the lesson of gettign behind the hill and also what the wind does when back there can be learned on a toy model. I think it might be worth while to learn just how turbulent the air can be safely. Also it will ingrain a memory to not get caught behind the hill that will transfer to HG when your the one flying.

If anyone is interested I'd be willing to teach anyone willing to learn R/C how to slope fly if anyone thinks it may help. Same issues, less risk and different perspective.

Take care,

Marc

bricksfly · Post by **bricksfly** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:58 pm

Mike,
So glad to hear you are already on the road to recovery and not headed for some lengthy surgeries, etc...
I am unfortunately one of the group of low hour Falcon pilots mentioned earlier that made a poor judgement call that cost me a good thumping into the ground.
I also am thankful to be able to have learned from this error and fly another day.
All the best! Be vigilant in thinking of safety and acting accordingly in the air!

OSCAR · Post by **OSCAR** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:41 pm

The only reason to choose a crab angle would be if the ridge line to the left or right is not as far in front of you, or if you suspect the winds are lighter to the side, or if you anticipate lift to the side.

By flying to the side you would get out of the rotor and away from the ridge because the ridge falls away the further west you go once your out or above the rotor you could get back in front of the ridge by increasing the crab angle and flying straight into the wind because now you have some altitude to play with was all I was trying to say .the higher you are the further back you can go .the wind was not that strong in front and you also have A chance of catching a thermal to get back up.makes sense to me.Don't be concerned Joe you taught me well I Know what your saying .I was talking about a strong headwind behind the ridge with not enough altitude to clear the ridge .Does that make sense.

jcflies · Post by **jcflies** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:52 pm

marc! i'm VERY interested! i just called you, in fact! THANKS!!!!

JT · Post by JT » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:59 pm

So sorry, Mike, that your re-entry, with health coverage in hand, was ironic. Or was it a self-fulfilling prophecy?

It sounds to me as though you have already learned from your mishap. Your options were very limited in a Falcon as far as getting back to the front of the mountain. Maybe choosing a section for landing with a less extreme drop-off at the rear would have helped with the rotor. Going through the venturi above the dam could have been much, much worse.

But you'll never do this one again, right? See you in the winter sun and may the healing be quick.

addicted2climbing · Post by **addicted2climbing** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:56 pm

Janyce, I sent you a PM

Marc

greblo · Post by **greblo** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:29 pm

Makes perfect sense Oscar, but in this case he was screwed with no way out.
The ridge running down towards the dam, is also further upwind. Experience tells us that if he couldn't penetrate straight forward from behind launch, he wasn't going to get out by drifting to the west. This would have put him much further behind the ridge over there; certainly well below the 45 degree angle that we talk about.