Sylmar Hang Gliding Association

How is this going to affect us? How should we communicate our concerns to the study group.

http://www.nps.gov/pwro/rimofthevalley/ ... 10_Web.pdf

It certainly could affect us negatively, as it includes all the mountains from Mt Wilson to Point Mugu. It could also be viewed as an opportunity to get more flying sites.

We need to respond appropriately. Your SHGA Board of Directors are doing some of the necessary work, as is Larry Chamblee.

It is certainly helpful for supporters of hang gliding to attend these meetings, or respond to the study group in writing.

There are several levels of National Park Service land designations, from National Scenic Areas and National Monuments, to National Wildnerness Areas, to National Parks. The more protected the lands, the greater the levels of regulation and environmental protection.

What's is best for hang gliding and aviation in general is for the lands to remain as they are and outside of the control of the Department of Interior.

If these lands are to be incorporated into the National Park Service inventory, it is clear that some higher level of regulation (in general) can be expected.

Our role should be, as I see it, to....

1. encourage a management plan of minimal regulatory nature.

2. try to ensure that hang gliding be exempted from the National Park services definition of an "aircraft", and be considered an allowable use on and over any and all of the proposed Parks lands.

Please take the time to attend the meeting tonight at 7 pm in Altadena, or next Wednesday, 6:30 - 8 pm October 13th in Sylmar.

If you can't attend, please contribute to the process in writing. You can be brief, polite, and mention the history of hang gliding in southern California's mountains, our limited availability of flying sites, the loss of sites due to development, the need for other flying sites, our cross country over flight needs, and the fact that for "purposes of regulation" even the FAA refuses to define a hang glider as an "aircraft". They define it as an "unpowered ultralight vehicle".

Wednesday Oct 6th Altadena Meeting
568 East Mount Curve Ave
Altadena, CA 91001

Wednesday October 13th Sylmar Meeting
HErrick Elementary School
13350 Herrick Ave
Sylmar 91342

greblo wrote:It certainly could affect us negatively, as it includes all the mountains from Mt Wilson to Point Mugu. It could also be viewed as an opportunity to get more flying sites.

What about this idea!!!!!!!!

Soaring Corridor

Parks, open fields, agreements with golf courses etc... that are spaced periodically. Legal and safe LZs that allow cross country flying in the San Gabes.

Oh Soaring Corridorâ„¢!

Can't forget that â„¢

I strongly think we should support the Forrest Service land grab for the following reasons, but with 1 concern I will mention later.

Huge US deficits have lined the accounts of Foreign governments like China, and sovereign wealth funds with trillions of dollars and they are looking to make investments. China is blocked from buying expensive US weapon systems and many US companies. There is nothing left for them to buy but land, real estate and natural resources, and US politicians. Thus they could buy up the land around Los Angeles and bribe the politicians to get the permits to develop it. There is evidence of China buying up natural resources in Australia, http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busines ... 5940888683
Venezuela, Texas oil and natural gas http://www.cbs7kosa.com/news/details.asp?ID=22087
the list goes on.

We are already seeing a permit consultant in Los Angeles to reduce departments from "12to2" to make business development earlier.
http://www.sfvbj.com/news/2010/oct/11/b ... ng-change/

Once this land is developed I doubt hang gliders will ever be able to fly over it( I may be wrong here?) So the best course is for the Feds to make a land grab. I think the president can do it with a single signature.

I read somewhere the Rim would come under Forest Service control which we have a good rapport with(much thanks to people like Larry Chamblee who have opened additional launches) .

I think we should be on the side of the Forest Service especially if they win this battle. We should remind them we will continue to police the land of renegade activity and pick up trash almost as fast as the 30 second policy at Disneyland.

If we were extremely optimistic we could suggest a series of 12 new launches around the rim and possibly a continuous fire break around the base which could serve as a 100% available from any peak emergency landing strip.

Looking through my notes I saw Crestline was a 501(c) and somehow more interrelated to th FS and I wonder if SHGA should adopt that classification.

To finish up I would address my major concern about the land grab. Many parks around the would including many in the US, even Yellow Stone and Yosemite http://whc.unesco.org/en/statesparties/us are part of the UNESCO world heritage sites. Eventually sovereign US lands would be administrated and operated by a United Nations Committee http://whc.unesco.org/en/guidelines/

and thus hang gliding could be completely banned entirely across the earth with the single signature of a foreign minister.

Now what did I do with those Batso plans.

Doug

Wow, Doug, your ability to think outside the box never ceases to amaze me.

The National Park Service has been authorized to conduct a study of the "Rim of the Valley Corridor" that includes Kagel, the rest of the San Gabriel Mountains, and all the other mountains around the Los Angeles basin, as shown in Orian's map above. This study will determine whether any portion of this area should be managed by the National Park Service. This determination is based on a few factors such as uniqueness, cultural significance, and sufficiency of the current land management as National Forests. This study, as they all do, will take about five years and will involve several rounds of public meetings. Further details about the process are avaliable from the NPS at http://www.nps.gov/pwro/rimofthevalley/.

The National Park Service and the Forest Service are very different government agencies, and they manage their lands for somewhat different purposes. Park Service lands are primarily managed for recreation and preservation; Forest Service lands are primarily managed for sustainable timber production, grazing, mining, and public use. National Park Service land use rules are typically stricter than those of the National Forests. In particular, use by aircraft (including hang gliders) is normally prohibited on Park Service land.

My guess is that the result of the study will either be no change, or that the San Gabriels will become a National Recreation Area, managed by the Forest Service with some help from the National Park Service. Hang gliding has such a long history in the San Gabriel mountains that I doubt we'll have any difficulty getting the sport permitted in whatever land management plan results. However, we must be aware of the process and be involved at the right moment to make sure this happens. In recent years, other flying sites in Southern California have been both saved and lost this way.

The first round of public meetings was held over the last few weeks. Joe Greblo attended the one in Tujunga, Cyndia Zumpft-Klein and I attended the one in Altadena, and the one in Sylmar was attended by Rob Burgis, Jim Thompson, Darryl Weaver, Larry Chamblee, Tom Shaffer, and Greg Angsten. Thanks to all who attended; our presence at these meetings helps to assure that the concerns of the hang gliding community are heard. Larry also prepared and submitted an excellent written public comment on behalf of SHGA. It is available here, and is worth reading.

Resource studies such as this one are how land use policy is developed. Our participation and diligence assures that hang gliding and paragliding are fairly considered, and given that, I believe that our sport will do well. The board of directors will continue to be involved, and help from other club members is always very welcome.

I think the participation and diligence of our group is required. Our "low-visibility recreational use" could easily be booted from the park lands without a public outcry.

Nice explanation Ken.

Detailed map from perturbed landowners:
Notice our LZ, radio control park, Windsports house, and El Caruso park all fall inside the study area according to this map.

The image is too wide for this thread so I linked the image.

large version:
http://www.corva.org/Latest_Issues/Imag ... leyMap.jpg

map prepared by this group:
http://www.landrights.org/

also here are the:
MT. TAMALPAIS HANG GLIDING RULES AND PROCEDURES
http://www.mchga.org/rules1006.PDF
Which is operated in the Mt Tamalpias state park.
Its a different type of site and somewhat more restrictive,not very soarable. They used to offer novice lessons.

Note, I also had an idea we could have a paved road to launch, maybe a direct route around Trash MTN. Restrooms and picnic tables etc on launch?

I get the feeling that this land reacquisition is not going to give us more funds.

Paved road up to launch?
Rest Rooms?
Concessions?
Personal Trainers?
Gondola Rides?

Probably not.

In case it was lost in the text of an earlier message, this study is due to present its results in 2014. At that time, they may find that this project does not meet NPS standards for taking on responsibility, they could make recommendations for joint or alternative management with/from other agencies (including private, according to the presentation) or they could recommend that NPS manage the whole thing. The report is then presented to congress to see if anyone, probably the regional House representative, wants to do anything with it, i.e. designation and funding.

More than likely, the entire thing will be shelved but they have our input and recognize our desire to influence the outcome, in any case. For our part, vigilance of the process is still necessary; we should not wait to see what will happen and speak up at every opportunity. The next chance is in 2012 with the publishing of an "alternatives" newsletter to be mailed to interested parties for comment. You may subscribe here:

http://www.nps.gov/pwro/rimofthevalley/

Doug and Ken -

Thanks for your kind words.

I liked this song and thought I would post it, before I forget

Big Park
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xvAB6DAhtM[/youtube]