Don,
“As always?� This information is new to most.
Ken stated, “No matter how acute one’s hindsight, one can’t change the past.�
True.
There is an acute situation going on right now. In this case Ken is trying to stop the bleeding by promptly answering questions that most club members are unaware of. Ken has been forthcoming, but according to you, God forbid that he has to take the time to explain something that should have been answered before it was asked.
If you do not think that the members should be on a need to know basis, that’s fine, but I disagree.
I am not pointing out that I know everything; just that I would like to know more and ask why we went down the avenue we took. To learn is to prevent.
I think that Rob, Ken, BJ, Greg, Katherine, Fred, Mike M, Mike K, Joe, Cyndia, Dan, Lynn, and Jim Thompson are all doing a commendable job and if they are willing to run again, which I hope they will, I will vote for all of them.
There is a chronic problem that has more to do with the communication than with any individual on the Board. That can be discussed at a further time.
Some questions about the pavilion project
Moderator: Chip
The rail is going to be up soon. It is the one example of the gazebo that was low on cost, and will be in place in a reasonable time. Glen saved us thousands of dollars.
Thank you Glen...I would have to say that I was leery after looking at the samples, but your final design evolved into a product that compliments the gazebo very well.
Can't wait to place my plate of food and beer... or soda on the wide eight inch counter top.
Thank you Glen...I would have to say that I was leery after looking at the samples, but your final design evolved into a product that compliments the gazebo very well.
Can't wait to place my plate of food and beer... or soda on the wide eight inch counter top.
Last edited by Busto on Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
The effort of those who have worked on the gazebo is not to be understated. Even if you crawled into one of the caves only once to dig out some space for the future hang glider tubes, your effort is effort that is noticed.
There is in no way a point in which one could reasonably compare the efforts of those who worked on the gazebo to the cost that has reached the point of where it is. As I wrote earlier in this topic, it is a chronic problem that has to do with communication and not with one single individual on the board. So for everyone that worked on the gazebo...good job!
There is in no way a point in which one could reasonably compare the efforts of those who worked on the gazebo to the cost that has reached the point of where it is. As I wrote earlier in this topic, it is a chronic problem that has to do with communication and not with one single individual on the board. So for everyone that worked on the gazebo...good job!
For those who may not know, the SHGA Board of Directors monthly meeting minutes can be viewed by going into the "members only" section of the home page. They have not always been there but minutes for 2009 through the present are posted and we will continue posting these on a monthly basis following each meeting. This has been stated before but maybe needs to be stated again to address the "communication problem" quotation that seems to be a recurring theme in this thread.
For those who really want to know what goes on with this this club, accessing this area of our website is all you need to do. The history of all club discussions and decisions can be found there, at least since 2009.
Rob Burgis
For those who really want to know what goes on with this this club, accessing this area of our website is all you need to do. The history of all club discussions and decisions can be found there, at least since 2009.
Rob Burgis
Last edited by BudRob on Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yes, they are there and I would recommend that you all go in and look at the gazebo information since 2009. They are not as clear as they could have been, but I have no doubt that they will in the future. Many people were not aware of where they were. This is not necessarily the boards fault. Don didn't know where they were as many others.
I know people are working on the remaining gazebo issues, but is there a budget for the remaining work? I assume what's left is the following:
1) Railing: We can start installing the the railing next week. I just need someone to weld the brackets onto the roof collumns first. Froschauer says he can do it, but he's temporarily without his welder. Once the welding is done, it will go up pretty quick with a little help. I'll have the brackets fabricated and the locations marked early next week.
2) Roof framing
3) Roof Surface
4) Wheechair Ramp
Is there more needed before we can actually use this thing?
1) Railing: We can start installing the the railing next week. I just need someone to weld the brackets onto the roof collumns first. Froschauer says he can do it, but he's temporarily without his welder. Once the welding is done, it will go up pretty quick with a little help. I'll have the brackets fabricated and the locations marked early next week.
2) Roof framing
3) Roof Surface
4) Wheechair Ramp
Is there more needed before we can actually use this thing?
Flyyyyy
A retaining wall to along side the wheel chair ramp is also needed.
No, we don't have a "budget" as such, as it takes what it takes, and the positive cash flow means that it will be finished, eventually, however we choose to spend the money to complete it (paid labor or not).
From estimates I have recently seen on roofing materials, hardware and framing lumber, it will likely take $15,000 - $20,000 to finish what we have in the plans without much or any paid labor. We currently have about $7K but this number will slowing increase if we only pay LZ maint costs.
So what do we do? We can:
1) Do the work as the money comes in. This will stretch the final completion out at least one year, probably more.
2) Take a personal loan from one or more of the members at very low interest (we already have these offeres) and pay it back as the positive cash flow allows.
Personally I think we should take the money and complete as labor allows, even paying some here and there as needed in areas that we don't have volunteers that know how to do the work. But if the membership feels differently I can easily be persuaded to finish as we get the dough, and pay no labor, and hope that people who know how to do things I don't will show up as needed, or those who do show up will learn as they go. I am confident that we will complete it this way as well, it may cost less but will take a lot longer and there will be more errors.
What does the membership think about this? Should it be put to a vote?
No, we don't have a "budget" as such, as it takes what it takes, and the positive cash flow means that it will be finished, eventually, however we choose to spend the money to complete it (paid labor or not).
From estimates I have recently seen on roofing materials, hardware and framing lumber, it will likely take $15,000 - $20,000 to finish what we have in the plans without much or any paid labor. We currently have about $7K but this number will slowing increase if we only pay LZ maint costs.
So what do we do? We can:
1) Do the work as the money comes in. This will stretch the final completion out at least one year, probably more.
2) Take a personal loan from one or more of the members at very low interest (we already have these offeres) and pay it back as the positive cash flow allows.
Personally I think we should take the money and complete as labor allows, even paying some here and there as needed in areas that we don't have volunteers that know how to do the work. But if the membership feels differently I can easily be persuaded to finish as we get the dough, and pay no labor, and hope that people who know how to do things I don't will show up as needed, or those who do show up will learn as they go. I am confident that we will complete it this way as well, it may cost less but will take a lot longer and there will be more errors.
What does the membership think about this? Should it be put to a vote?
The roof is special in that I think it's smart to do just the roof with a loan or whatever it takes to get it done before the rain starts in earnest. A roof would provide cover while working on the rest of it in winter, allowing us to keep it progressing, rain or shine and protect what we do put in, like the railing.
Without the roof, I think we will come to a standstill till spring. I say we push for the roof ahead of all else. I too could loan the club money if needed.
I just completed putting a new roof on my house with the help of some friends who I may be able to get to work a lot cheaper than contractors. I paid them $10-13/hr. That would only apply if we do 3-tab shingles. That's all my guys know. Modern heavy premium shingles are pretty wind resistant and a lot tougher than they used to be. I would prefer a metal roof too, but not if it would require waiting another season or spending too much.
I don't know how much the framing would cost, but after it's done and the plywood is down, I think heavy duty quality shingles sold at Home Depot would cost about $1200 to cover the gazebo. There would be probably another $500 for ridge caps and other incidentals. Could be done in a single weekend with three guys = about $600 labor.
So my vote is yes to the roof, and as soon as possible.
Without the roof, I think we will come to a standstill till spring. I say we push for the roof ahead of all else. I too could loan the club money if needed.
I just completed putting a new roof on my house with the help of some friends who I may be able to get to work a lot cheaper than contractors. I paid them $10-13/hr. That would only apply if we do 3-tab shingles. That's all my guys know. Modern heavy premium shingles are pretty wind resistant and a lot tougher than they used to be. I would prefer a metal roof too, but not if it would require waiting another season or spending too much.
I don't know how much the framing would cost, but after it's done and the plywood is down, I think heavy duty quality shingles sold at Home Depot would cost about $1200 to cover the gazebo. There would be probably another $500 for ridge caps and other incidentals. Could be done in a single weekend with three guys = about $600 labor.
So my vote is yes to the roof, and as soon as possible.
Flyyyyy
Move Forward !
Borrow the money if needed - but let's keep moving.
Bye the way - THANKS GLEN
Bye the way - THANKS GLEN
Rob,
Thank you for responding to Glenn’s questions.
Two retaining walls are needed per plan, actually, to hold up the dirt ramp.
An accessible parking stall is also required per the approved drawing Sheet A-1 to obtain the Certificate of Occupancy.
If we have a clear game plan on the roof construction, i.e., the required skilled labors (paid or not) are lined up and ready to go, then taking a loan is worth it.
Glenn,
I think a metal roof will go better with the rails you are making. Our project is in a “Very High Fire Hazard Severity Zone� and the roofing material requires a Class A fire rating. It is safer to stick with the material that has been approved.
Thank you for responding to Glenn’s questions.
Two retaining walls are needed per plan, actually, to hold up the dirt ramp.
An accessible parking stall is also required per the approved drawing Sheet A-1 to obtain the Certificate of Occupancy.
If we have a clear game plan on the roof construction, i.e., the required skilled labors (paid or not) are lined up and ready to go, then taking a loan is worth it.
Glenn,
I think a metal roof will go better with the rails you are making. Our project is in a “Very High Fire Hazard Severity Zone� and the roofing material requires a Class A fire rating. It is safer to stick with the material that has been approved.
Thanks Pi-Hsuan. I started a new thread to start this topic fresh here: http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2774
I'm hoping we can move this discussion there to avoid these confusing thread titles.
I've summarized the discussion so far over there. I'll add your comment.
I'm hoping we can move this discussion there to avoid these confusing thread titles.
I've summarized the discussion so far over there. I'll add your comment.
Flyyyyy
