Gate vandal problem solved

OP · Post by OP » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:47 pm

2 steps:

1.Replace current lock with this 9 dollar lock. This thing doesn't require sight, great for both those with limited sight and for the speed of everyone.

The purpose is to keep looky loos out and to keep the honest, honest. There isn't really a lock you can't snip or vandalizes anyway.

2. Check out this automated licence plate capture device:

a) waterproof, small 5.5"X 4.5"X3", rugged.
b) runs on AA batteries and SD cards for months at a time, it only records where there is sufficient motion. Also you can schedule it to conserve battries ie: no capture during weekend daytime.
c) tuned to capture the reading of licence plates. The IR flash:

You hide it in a random spot on the road not near the gate, not where people get out of the vehicle. If and when we find the gate ruined, and they had a plate, we got em. Ranger would love to prosecution forest vandals with our evidence, and we would like to recover our losses if damage to the road occurs.

How much would you pay for this 5,000$? It could all yours for only 650$
http://www.reconyx.com/

Think of the time we would save. Assume: I guess about 20 trucks a week go up and down. Average truck on the way up has 6 people in it, and 1 on the way down. 3 minutes per gate opening. 364 man hours are spent opening or waiting on that gate / year? Not to mention the hassle factor for drivers who don't want to drive that day.

now watch this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lcJlTQgdoc[/youtube]

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:36 pm

If it's secure enough, that directional masterlock is a cool solution.

OP · Post by OP » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:07 pm

It doesn't seem as secure as our beefy as our big lock. But it is fast, and you don't have to look at it to operate it. I have a feeling that it takes the same about of effort to defeat a big lock or a little lock if you have you mind set on it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NiFPYdQwAg[/youtube]

greblo · Post by **greblo** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:08 pm

Gosh, I hate to shoot down my most respected "idea guy", but that Master lock won't stand a chance up there. The guy that we think is the recurring vandal, has demonstrated all sorts of different methods of trying to get through our locks, including reciprocal saws, acetylene torches, hack saw blades, bolt cutters and chains and cables attached to his truck.

Your Master lock has a significant gap between the input pad and the lock body. Just slipping an aircraft cable or strap behind it and tie it to the truck and you'll tear the input pad right off the lock. Perhaps then, none of us could get in.

Also, I've been unable to find any other combination locks with a large 3/8" shackle. It seems all combination locks have smaller shackles.

When you get me alone, remind me to tell you the story about the midnight, "video stakeouts" that I did up there a few years ago.

JD · Post by JD » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:45 pm

greblo wrote:...Also, I've been unable to find any other combination locks with a large 3/8" shackle. It seems all combination locks have smaller shackles....

How would 7/16" work, Joe?

Or there's the same lock w/o the shroud for < 1/2 the price (in lots of 5): http://www.padlockoutlet.com/K636-Super ... dlock.html

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:49 pm

Too bad that lock is not secure enough. I ordered one anyway, because I use a lot of combo locks and they are a hassle in the dark or in a hurry. I can use these in a lot of places.

The entire hassle of the gate lock is just in aligning the numbers with such limited visibility. If you could do it without looking or could see the numbers clearly when you are turning them, then we wouldn't have an issue.

I can imagine a tube design that would allow that but too late now.

I can't imagine taking the time to cut that lock. I wonder if the vandal works as hard at his job as he does being a dick. He shows real drive in that endeavor.

OP · Post by OP » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:33 am

greblo wrote:Gosh, I hate to shoot down my most respected "idea guy".

Most of the time they are crazy ideas which don't stand up to the scrutiny of people with any experience on the topic.

To further the idea anyway.

Dear Vandal,
Go ahead and defeat our lock. We have now made it easier to do for your convenience, and for our removal if it you foul it some how.

However notice CAL PENAL 608 vehicle trespass including sub (i) Willfully opening, tearing down, or otherwise destroying any
fence on the enclosed land of another, or opening any gate, bar, or
fence of another and willfully leaving it open without the written
permission of the owner, or maliciously tearing down, mutilating, or
destroying any sign, signboard, or other notice forbidding shooting
on private property.

If you bust our lock and drive onto the road, our low maintenance and nearly autonomous camera will read your plate. Your damages could easily wobble into a felony. The conviction at the higher standard criminal level will make it easy for us to recover at the civil level.

greblo · Post by **greblo** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:11 am

The Super Sesamee might be enough to keep him out and it would be a little easier than the Super Lock that has proven itself. The cost difference isn't that much but the convenience factor is helpful.

My fear is that he can still get his saw in there and cut through the Sesamee. Perhaps the shrouded model will prevent thatl, but memory tells me that when I tried a large shrouded lock, I couldn't twist it to the direction that made it easy to read.

As far as inconvenience goes, I've got an infinite amount of patience with this problem and probably with this same guy. I've replaced many Forest Service locks from this gate (and the one across the road), and quite a few of our own. It's become one of my personal missions in life.

Maybe someone wants to donate a Super Sesamee combination lock for a test period?

dhmartens · Post by **dhmartens** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:14 pm

Maybe we should encourage the perpetrator to strike by replacing the heavy duty class 2 security lock with a flimsy "Hello Kitty" lock that just begs to be torn away. The vandal would be compelled to strike within 48 hours and our cameras would be there waiting to snare him.

The other end of the spectrum is a $2,000 military grade lock that would take longer to cut through than the gate itself.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... 3406647601

greblo · Post by **greblo** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:28 pm

Doug,,
You're getting very close to overtaking OP as my favorite poster on this site.

Busto · Post by **Busto** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:47 pm

Does it come with a bag?

OP · Post by OP » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:46 am

Yea, Doug has got it right. The hello kitty lock is the right path.

Also, I have 24-7 access to a CNC machine and a bunch of scrap. Greblo, if you want to give me a napkin sketch of a new tang I can cut it for you. I'm thinking a piece of 3/8ths thick plate cut to a shape that is designed to fit snugly with our lock. It would also position the lock such that the combo was easy to read.

I'm thinking something like 400 series stainless, very tough, relatively strong, a mother to cut with a saw, and most of all... oxy torches don't really make a dent in it.

Or we could go with a 4130 or similar style chromoly, which is much stronger against a pull attack, yet cuts easier, and dissolves easily with a puff from an oxyacetylene torch.

greblo · Post by **greblo** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:30 pm

OP
Great,
Next time you're at Kagel, I'll give you what we call the "locking bar" and you can make a couple of them out of kryptonite or whatever you think will work.

I've ordered another Squire lock so we'll be back in business very soon.

OP · Post by OP » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:16 pm

Cool, Lets do it. Also recommend how tight you want the locks to fit.

After all if it wasn't for kryptonite we wouldn't even been able to do a moon landing:

greblo · Post by **greblo** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:38 pm

I can't believe that someone pays you to do this.

Joe

dhmartens · Post by **dhmartens** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:25 pm

Something like this $6 motion sensor LED light placed inside the lock tube might not only make it easier to see the dials but could deter the vandal as he would know some type of unknown technology has detected him.

http://www.amazon.com/SE-Wireless-Motio ... d_sim_hi_4

I was looking for one with a timer and 100db alarm.

gregangsten · Post by **gregangsten** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:31 am

[quote="OP"]2 steps:

1.Replace current lock with this 9 dollar lock. This thing doesn't require sight, great for both those with limited sight and for the speed of everyone.

The purpose is to keep looky loos out and to keep the honest, honest. There isn't really a lock you can't snip or vandalizes anyway.

I am all for this also. It will keep out most everybody except the Man On A Mission who breaks the big lock anyway. It costs less to replace and our driver will not have to be a locksmith to get out again. I've heard the argument against it but I just don't buy it. If the big lock worked it would make sense, but as we have seen, it doesn't work.

OP · Post by OP » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:09 am

Okay, I got it.

Design requirements:
1.Easy to open, Sight not required.
2.inconvenient to defeat.
3.Inexpensive lock used.

It's all about the "locking bar" as joe calls it. With a simple redesign, we can meet our goals.

OP · Post by OP » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:56 am

Solved... Uses the 9$, no-look lock.

The locking bar holds the 9 dollar lock in a way that is difficult to mechanically defeat. It is orientated so our hands can easily manipulate the code on its dial, yet doesn't avail its self to a wire, snippers or a torch. The bar will be torch proof material.

Here is the best part, It will be easy for us to defeat if it gets fouled by glue or something nasty. A special jig deployed with a special tool mechanically destroys the lock. This process will take take about the same time as opening the old 5 position combo lock. The tool is non-obvious, inexpensive, yet something very specific that you wont have in a common tool box or could buy from home-depot. Its function is omitted at this time.

Spitfire · Post by **Spitfire** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:22 pm

Since we're being creative here (and I'm bored) how about a mechanism to disable or trap the vandal.

We could electrify the lock and assuming he doesn't use gloves (and we do) and the voltage is high enough just wait for it to knock him out.

Or...when it's blowing down and no pilots are going up, put a mini bear trap in there to trap his hand. Failing that tie a venomous snake in there. Or a scorpion.

Yes? No? Maybe?! OK back to the real world for me.

Mike (the English one)

Sylmar Hang Gliding Association

Gate vandal problem solved

Gate vandal problem solved

Re: Gate vandal problem solved