Sylmar Hang Gliding Association

I will do some research, call McKenzie and see what I can find.

Thanks for stepping up Mike report to Rob when you get the info.

Just sent an email to McKenzie about this and had an idea.
Have a radio with external speaker mounted in a box similar to phone (I may be able to get one of these). This box will have a combo lock on it in case you have to respond when there is no one in the "beer garden" where the other radio is hanging from a tree for quick response. Since there is always someone in the beer garden theft will not be an issue, as long as someone can remember to put it in it's lock box with the speaker at the end of the day.
Make the combo the same as the gate.

Mike M wrote:The only problem is availability to and use of the radio by unlicensed users.
There is no way to ensure that the use is licensed if the radio in unmonitored.

Some may think that's not a big deal, but "Uncle Sugar" (FCC) thinks so.

Mike

Could you provide the source of this info please. I looked through the ham radio license manual and saw no reference stating that the owner of radio equipment is responsible for unauthorized use. Anyone can buy a radio, turn it on and transmit. You guys are acting like it's a restricted substance.

Amateur radio is a controlled substance. That's why it's LICENSED. To imply otherwise is just ignores basic fact. As a club we need to ensure that we behave in a manner that reflects some level of integrity. Starting a conversation that basically says that unlicensed use is OK because it serves the needs of the club does not serve us nor is it how I would want to have us represented.

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?28 ... -Ham-Bands

Here, the relevant sentence is: "At the time, the FCC shut down the repeater system for more than two months, saying that the repeater's owner and control operator did not have proper control of the system and that the control operator was permitting unlicensed individuals to transmit via the machines."

The FCC expects operators to have basic control of their equipment. We can provide that control via lockboxes or whatever. Challenging the need for that control just doesn't fly.

We need to focus on providing a basic control of the radio which shouldn't be hard. I'm not opposed to the radio, I'm opposed to the thought process that says we can do what we want on the amateur bands because we know how to dial in a frequency and key down a transmitter.

Mike M wrote:Amateur radio is a controlled substance. That's why it's LICENSED. To imply otherwise is just ignores basic fact. As a club we need to ensure that we behave in a manner that reflects some level of integrity. Starting a conversation that basically says that unlicensed use is OK because it serves the needs of the club does not serve us nor is it how I would want to have us represented.

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?28 ... -Ham-Bands

Here, the relevant sentence is: "At the time, the FCC shut down the repeater system for more than two months, saying that the repeater's owner and control operator did not have proper control of the system and that the control operator was permitting unlicensed individuals to transmit via the machines."

The FCC expects operators to have basic control of their equipment. We can provide that control via lockboxes or whatever. Challenging the need for that control just doesn't fly.

We need to focus on providing a basic control of the radio which shouldn't be hard. I'm not opposed to the radio, I'm opposed to the thought process that says we can do what we want on the amateur bands because we know how to dial in a frequency and key down a transmitter.

I am done discussing this on the forum, obviously we cannot do what we want and I am aware of the rules regarding radio operators and it is being handled properly with Rob Burgis, so if you have concerns talk to him.

Mike M,

Thank you for the insight.

Mike M wrote:....I'm not opposed to the radio, I'm opposed to the thought process that says we can do what we want on the amateur bands because we know how to dial in a frequency and key down a transmitter.

In that case the club might better benefit from organizing study materials and/or study groups to get every unlicensed pilot in the club who is currently operating illegally, licensed.

Technically, we don't need a 2-meter radio in the gazebo that transmits. If someone calls in requesting assistance (and in the unlikely event that it's even heard by anyone on the LZ) then there should be at least one pilot w/ a hand-held transceiver who can respond using his/her own gear.

The big advantage of the gazebo is that a full-wave antenna may be installed up high which could dramatically increase the range and be helpful to pilots who are past line-of-sight. 2-meter signals do seem to go past the horizon somewhat in my experience. Some of the places where we get flushed out have little or no cell reception, so this could be a worthwhile investment that might also help foster more enthusiasm for XC.

It needs to be pointed out that I don't aspire to be a wet blanket on this process. A fully vetted radio, with power + a good antenna would be a great asset. On almost any occasion there will be licensed pilots around who could operate the radio. We don't need to generate a program to license every pilot in the club. The unlicensed operators (actually an oxymoron) are not really part of this conversation. We should center the discussion on how to manage the radio with our club's licensed operators.

Mike

Mike M wrote:....We should center the discussion on how to manage the radio with our club's licensed operators....

Licensed club members have access to the combination lock that covers the mic on the gazebo radio.
FCC IDs are already listed in the club directory.
The gazebo radio doesn't need any more than 5 watts.
The antenna is the thing that matters.

I think I already stated that any gazebo radio does not need a mic. What's important is that anyone can listen and tell whether there's an issue. In all likelihood, there will be pilots w/ transceivers.
Every pilot should know how to broadcast a distress call while in flight if needed. No license is required for that.

The unlicensed operators (actually an oxymoron) are not really part of this conversation. We should center the discussion on how to manage the radio with our club's licensed operators.

Since it is being installed on SHGA property, it seems SHGA member should have an opportunity to understand what our club is getting into. I don't think you need to have a Ham radio license to be an SHGA member. So it seems reasonable for any member to ask questions concerning a radio being installed in the LZ.

One reason I became interested is a question, which was brought up during a conversation. "The owner of the station is responsible for the operation of the equipment." Would that mean SHGA is owner, and would we be responsible for any fines, which are levied?

I am for the Radio and I think it could serve a purpose in some unforeseeable circumstance.

SHGA website has plenty of information for preparing and gives locations for taking examinations.

I think the issue now is how strong the lock on the transmit button needs to be.

Glue a piece of plexi-glass over the button that could be pried off with a screwdriver but would need to be re-glued later.

Something as simple as a Velcro cover with an FCC warning label. Easily removed and reattached.

This way someone has to "break and enter" in order to transmit.

As I study for my exam, it appears that a licensed Ham radio operator has to renew their license every ten years.

So, it seems that our club will have to make sure that those who have access to the box in which the equipment is located, are current.

I guess I took it for granted that all members have radio licenses, I should not assume. Being from Europe I kind of compare it to learning the native language of the country you are moving to goes without question, but your concerns make more sense now.
I don't know how many pilots in the club have no license but we should single them out and humiliate them publicly, or just kindly help them along to make a test appointment.

I spoke with Erwin more about the radio today and he brought up a very important point.
Speaker location and volume control.
Apparently in the past we had a radio which drove people crazy because it was more like a PA system. The radio at Andy Jackson is on but you can only hear it when you get close up to it and it's there to be used when necessary. I personally like that set up as we do not need to entertain the neighbors much less drive ourselves crazy with constant bursts of random transmissions blasting through the LZ. We can have an auxiliary speaker up in the pavillion for emergencies so all can hear, but other than that I'd prefer talking to the box.

I like the idea of having a speaker or two in the rafters of the gazebo. Rather than just having something for emergencies, I think it might often be interesting to spectators and pilots. Over the last two weekends for example, it would have been great to hear pilots racing or getting high and traveling.

It can always be easily turned down or off. If it is always turned way down, it would be useless as a communication tool for pilots to the LZ because no one will hear it.

gregangsten wrote:I like the idea of having a speaker or two in the rafters of the gazebo. Rather than just having something for emergencies, I think it might often be interesting to spectators and pilots. Over the last two weekends for example, it would have been great to hear pilots racing or getting high and traveling.

It can always be easily turned down or off. If it is always turned way down, it would be useless as a communication tool for pilots to the LZ because no one will hear it.

Yes, use the pavilllion speakers when wanted/needed with volume appropriate for the occasion, just not blasting by default day after day.

Doesn't the USHPA have a paid freq?

It's 151.625 according to the interwebs.

No need for Ham Nazis on a paid frequency. We can all abuse it at all times. No licence needed.

Someone matching my description and responding to my name was free banding radios on an industrial scale during the Colorado meet this summer. Average time for free-banding was about 3 minutes for the 1/250s and about 5 minutes for the 170s and similar. It's legal and solves this "problem."

TL;DR Let's use a private frequency paid for by the USHPA to avoid amateur radio members who were also national socialists in Germany during the 1930's.

OP wrote:Doesn't the USHPA have a paid freq?

It's 151.625 according to the interwebs.

No need for Ham Nazis on a paid frequency. We can all abuse it at all times. No licence needed.

Someone matching my description and responding to my name was free banding radios on an industrial scale during the Colorado meet this summer. Average time for free-banding was about 3 minutes for the 1/250s and about 5 minutes for the 170s and similar. It's legal and solves this "problem."

TL;DR Let's use a private frequency paid for by the USHPA to avoid amateur radio members who were also national socialists in Germany during the 1930's.

Well there we go, what do the naysayers say now!

After research:

USHPA has many paid freqs bought from the FCC. We can use them.

Ham Nazis are weird awful folks; let's invalidate their claims. With a paid freq their arguments are m00t.

A radio locked on their freq in the gazebo is cool.

Individuals using the freq is cool, using a free-banded radio illegally is still illegal.

Example: A local golf course has a paid freq, their 8$/hr workers all use the freq. No license needed.