Sylmar Hang Gliding Association

Two camps on the subject. Flyers and Criers. You haven't seen these people because they don't fly. Both have both gone Pro for team cry.

Does the SHGA governance board do everything right? I can't answer that. However I did make it to Big T and back for the first time last week. That's all I'm concerned about.

OP wrote:...I did make it to Big T and back for the first time last week. That's all I'm concerned about...

Mazel Tov!

Rafferty everyone deserves to be an a** hole once in a while. But you're abusing the privilege.

G.D.S. = Greblo Derangement Syndrome

It's debilitating and dangerous.

I doubt there would even still be a SHGA without Greblo, and if there was, it would be a sad thing to behold. Many many people contribute to this club in big ways, but none like Greblo. Sure, it's partially out of self-interest, but that's why we all do it, isn't it? Is the safer, wider runway less useful to you if it was built out of that terrible self-interest of not wanting his students to get hurt. Are all those dues collected from new members who came in through Windsports' advertising, work and dedication somehow not wanted because Joe made a little money off them too. At least he worked for his share. I don't think I've ever seen Greblo in the LZ when he wasn't there making something better. I just hope he doesn't get pissed off and leave us. I would if I got the shit he puts up with.

Thanks Joe, for everything, everyday.

Mike, your UP is still in great shape... Real clean lines.

I'd like to fly it at Ave "S".

The last time we flew At Ave. "S", it was great.

I've had great days out at "S", but that day was so smooth.

i talket to a contractor re. wash. we have a right to protect our prpoerty, and rebuild washed away land, if more rain is predicted. rome

I'll go out on a limb here and predict more rain... eventually.

Flying is, by far, the most magnificent feeling we, as humans, can know. (And if you men disagree, then why do you keep showing up, week after week, despite the trouble it might cause at home?) Anyway, THAT wasn't my point...My point is that we, as pilots, should ALWAYS do everything we can to keep one another flying. NOTHING is more important. Don't let anything, or anyone keep you from your LIFE!

Glenn wrote:G.D.S. = Greblo Derangement Syndrome

It's debilitating and dangerous.

I doubt there would even still be a SHGA without Greblo, and if there was, it would be a sad thing to behold. Many many people contribute to this club in big ways, but none like Greblo. Sure, it's partially out of self-interest, but that's why we all do it, isn't it? Is the safer, wider runway less useful to you if it was built out of that terrible self-interest of not wanting his students to get hurt. Are all those dues collected from new members who came in through Windsports' advertising, work and dedication somehow not wanted because Joe made a little money off them too. At least he worked for his share. I don't think I've ever seen Greblo in the LZ when he wasn't there making something better. I just hope he doesn't get pissed off and leave us. I would if I got the shit he puts up with.

Thanks Joe, for everything, everyday.

I just want to second Glenn's comments. In San Diego we have a site called "Torrey Pines" that is controlled 100% by a concessionaire. There's no democracy. There's no club oversight. There's no pilot control at all.

The relationship between Joe (Windsports) and the Sylmar site bears no resemblance to the authoritarian power of the concessionaire at Torrey. So I find it somewhat ironic that Barton would be bashing Joe (and Windsports) when he backed the absolute power of the concession at Torrey.

Barton, would you care to explain that inconsistency?

Maybe Glenn's assessment is correct. G.D.S. is dangerous and debilitating.

Bob,
Your understanding of the situation at Kagel is limited.

I do like your work with the US Hawks, and I do hope the Hawks can acquire insurance and can offer an alternative to the USHPA. The USHPA Like Greblo appear to me to be putting safety on the back burner in the interest of $.

Here's a question you might be able to answer,
Does the USHPA get a cut of every Tandem ride flown at Torrey? how about in the USA?
Do the Tandem passengers pay a fee to USHPA for 'membership' in order to get that waiver signed?

Rafferty wrote:Bob,
Your understanding of the situation at Kagel is limited.

I can't disagree with you on that. But I do believe that Joe Greblo is a man of integrity and that goes a long way with me.

Rafferty wrote:I do like your work with the US Hawks, and I do hope the Hawks can acquire insurance and can offer an alternative to the USHPA.

Thanks. We're going to need more pilots joining the US Hawks and more Chapters as well. Right now we have 3 Chapters that are both US Hawks Chapters and USHPA Chapters. But two of them have been late in renewing because USHPA continues to increase the demands on Chapters to remain Chapters. The latest "raising of the bar" is a requirement that all Chapter officers must remain current USHPA members. That's never been a requirement in the past and Chapters have gotten along just fine for decades. This requirement isn't such a big deal for larger clubs (like SHGA and Torrey Hawks) because we have lots of USHPA members. But some of the smaller clubs (like the Yosemite Hang Gliding Association or SW Texas Hang Gliders) only have a small number of members and they often have non-flying members (often spouses) filling in as officers. Now they have to pay USHPA fees even though they don't fly or their clubs will lose their USHPA Chapter status. You can read a letter by Connie Work (of the Yosemite club) at our forum:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1222

The bottom line is that USHPA is doing what every monopoly does ... consolidates power and becomes insensitive to the needs of its customers (or members). That's just one of many reasons why it would sure be helpful if the SHGA would vote to become a US Hawks Chapter. There's no cost, and it would send a message that USHPA shouldn't take their monopoly for granted. Please feel free to call me at 858-204-7499 if any of you would like more information on the pros and cons of becoming a US Hawks Chapter (or individual member). Thanks.

Rafferty wrote:Here's a question you might be able to answer,
Does the USHPA get a cut of every Tandem ride flown at Torrey? how about in the USA?
Do the Tandem passengers pay a fee to USHPA for 'membership' in order to get that waiver signed?

I don't think USHPA gets a direct cut of the actual tandem fee, but I believe they do get the money from the mandatory 30 day USHPA membership that each tandem passenger must buy. At Torrey, that's a considerable amount of money, and that's another reason why USHPA is so protective of the Torrey business. USHPA gets both 30 day membership money as well as continuing income from all the new PG pilots that they crank out each year. I believe that's part of the reason why USHPA has sided with the Torrey Concessionaires (David Jebb and Robin Marien) for all these years.

Thanks for posting, and please let me know if you'd like to bring the US Hawks Chapter issue before the SHGA Board.