Sylmar Hang Gliding Association

I was totally kidding... I was just commenting on the wild proposals that have been posted here as a plea for votes...

Believe me... I know what it's like to volunteer my time to the club (after all - you ARE using this forum ) and I agree with someone else who posted in this thread that no good deed goes un-punished.

Good luck with this... I will be rooting for you.

Two things:

1) I want to again publicly thank Chris for all of his work on the website. He and I haven't always agreed on things, but I do appreciate all his efforts and want all to know how grateful I am. Oh, and good luck in OZ, Chris!

2) This long discussion sure helps sort out who is thinking what. Since I've been busy and not around Kagel much lately, I don't know the candidates very well, so this has helped a lot.

Hello all, First I would like to make a plea. At our annual holiday party last night we had a wonderful roast of Rome and an exceptional multimedia high-resolution hang gliding experience. But an exit poll of attending pilots applause by loudness for each candidate showed me a slight disadvantage. So please write in Doug Martens for president and hand deliver your ballot to the LZ fee container or Windsports house by 7:00pm Tuesday.

Ushpga should market hang gliding? – They are mainly a glorified insurance company. We could run ads in their magazine. Hang gliding is also a spectator sport. Spectators have kept sites open.

The triangular development at our LZ. Our best-case scenario is we could buy that land and put an end to it. Now if everyone just chips in $10,000 or we have a member or 2 step forward (giant steps). Crestline waited too long.

For about $1,000 we could hire Paris Hilton and Borat impersonators and film them taking tandem rides. Release those onto the Internet and let it spread to every computer on the planet. “Paris Hilton mile high club tape�. What do you think?

HDTV – After the spectacular digital multimedia display last night, I see us truly on the right track. I propose a new web page or “cable TV channel� all hang gliding, 24 hours in stereo of broadband hang glider video, documentaries lessons etc. Video on demand or streaming. Chip advised us we could limit excessive users that hog the pipeline.
HDTV cameras.
http://www.learningcenter.sony.us/asset ... _camcorder
DiscoveryHD and HDNet could be interested in our footage or the concept. Other than flying there is no better way to show the sport.

Safety and Spectators – I noticed the spectators in our LZ are horrified by whacks. We could bring up the possibility of requiring super aerodynamic “pizza cutter� wheels and maybe drogue chutes. http://www.cutco.com/assets/prodimgs/enlarged/1502.jpg
Does German require them?

Hungry Joe’s flight school is also a great asset to this club. He offers hang 2 and 3 towing. Lets market that to be more comparable to Lookout Mountain.

Many of the members we lost were due to the aviation industry relocating to southern States.

Do we want to spend $400 a month to supply a porta potty on launch?

dhmartens wrote:Ushpga should market hang gliding? – They are mainly a glorified insurance company. We could run ads in their magazine.

Why advertise in a magazine read mainly by pilots? Wouldn't it be more effective to use a magazine such as OUTDOORS that is read by fellow crazies from other sports?

dhmartens wrote:The triangular development at our LZ. Our best-case scenario is we could buy that land and put an end to it. Now if everyone just chips in $10,000 or we have a member or 2 step forward (giant steps). Crestline waited too long.

Yeah, right, Mr. Gotgoldrocks. Why don't you just step forward with the whole amount yourself? We'll elect you "King" in perpetuity for that feat.

dhmartens wrote:For about $1,000 we could hire Paris Hilton and Borat impersonators and film them taking tandem rides. Release those onto the Internet and let it spread to every computer on the planet. “Paris Hilton mile high club tape�. What do you think?

Paris Hilton and Borat are not the poster-people I would choose to sell hang-gliding. Think about it.

dhmartens wrote:HDTV – After the spectacular digital multimedia display last night, I see us truly on the right track. I propose a new web page or “cable TV channel� all hang gliding, 24 hours in stereo of broadband hang glider video, documentaries lessons etc. Video on demand or streaming. Chip advised us we could limit excessive users that hog the pipeline. HDTV cameras. http://www.learningcenter.sony.us/asset ... _camcorder
DiscoveryHD and HDNet could be interested in our footage or the concept. Other than flying there is no better way to show the sport.

Agreed, somewhat.

dhmartens wrote:Safety and Spectators – I noticed the spectators in our LZ are horrified by whacks. We could bring up the possibility of requiring super aerodynamic “pizza cutter� wheels and maybe drogue chutes. http://www.cutco.com/assets/prodimgs/enlarged/1502.jpg
Does German require them?

More regulations, wheels to do a little gopher slicing and drogue 'chutes for Falcons? Can you say impeachment? And you're not even elected yet.

dhmartens wrote:Hungry Joe’s flight school is also a great asset to this club. He offers hang 2 and 3 towing. Lets market that to be more comparable to Lookout Mountain.

The club is not in business to keep other businesses open. We may wish to help by steering people to the schools but not to spend money to do it. It doesn't have that kind of budget.

dhmartens wrote:Many of the members we lost were due to the aviation industry relocating to southern States.

Really? I thought they just quit flying all together. I never knew the was a mad rush of SHGA pilots to Louisiana and Mississippi, no, wait did you mean to the North where Boeing is located?

dhmartens wrote:Do we want to spend $400 a month to supply a porta potty on launch?

It's private property that we use for free. We have no rights to have anything installed. Besides, Andy Gump isn't going to drive up that road for the same price that he comes to the LZ, if at all.

Good Luck on your candidacy.

Calm down, Jim

Do we want to spend $400 a month to supply a porta potty on launch?

Can you imagine the smell of launch?

I mean we can't even keep our windsock up. How many times would it take to have an Andy Gump knocked over before we vacated Kagel altogether?

I say we should concentrate on things that will likely help us directly.

• 1. Get a permanent windsock on towers (co-ordinate with the club that maintains the radio stations up there and see if we can get a good windsock on the top of the antennas).
  2. Get Chip to "finally" get that whackcam up.
  3. Lawn project (low water alternative).
  4. Lukens.
  5. Parties / Barbeques
  6. Official sponsorship from "Budweiser"

I am not sure if this guy is joking or not, and I know I have moved - but I am still a club member and love the SHGA (and hang gliding) so I have a few comments.

dhmartens wrote:Ushpga should market hang gliding? – They are mainly a glorified insurance company. We could run ads in their magazine. Hang gliding is also a spectator sport. Spectators have kept sites open.

It is USHPA.

Hang Gliding is NOT a spectator sport... that is part of the reason there are not more hang glider pilots, the reason there is no money in competing, and the reason more competitions are not held. It does not draw a crowd and/or sponsors. When people show up to watch hang gliding they see it, say "wow", take a photo, and then leave.

dhmartens wrote:The triangular development at our LZ. Our best-case scenario is we could buy that land and put an end to it. Now if everyone just chips in $10,000 or we have a member or 2 step forward (giant steps). Crestline waited too long.

So, you propose getting rid of the $100 initiation fee but now you think we should all "chip in" $10,000? That is a very interesting approach.

dhmartens wrote:For about $1,000 we could hire Paris Hilton and Borat impersonators and film them taking tandem rides. Release those onto the Internet and let it spread to every computer on the planet. “Paris Hilton mile high club tape�. What do you think?

This part has to be a joke... right?

dhmartens wrote:HDTV – After the spectacular digital multimedia display last night, I see us truly on the right track. I propose a new web page or “cable TV channel� all hang gliding, 24 hours in stereo of broadband hang glider video, documentaries lessons etc. Video on demand or streaming. Chip advised us we could limit excessive users that hog the pipeline.
HDTV cameras.
http://www.learningcenter.sony.us/asset ... _camcorder
DiscoveryHD and HDNet could be interested in our footage or the concept. Other than flying there is no better way to show the sport.

Have you seen most of the available hang gliding footage out there? Its not very good. Sure, we love it because we love hang gliding but noone else wants to watch it 24-7. It is very hard to video hang gliding in a way that makes it look cool - without spending a great deal of time and money. Ask Andy "Pricecheck" - he will tell you all about it using the words "gay" and "stupid" a lot when doing so.

dhmartens wrote:Safety and Spectators – I noticed the spectators in our LZ are horrified by whacks. We could bring up the possibility of requiring super aerodynamic “pizza cutter� wheels and maybe drogue chutes.

Whacks are awesome! If you get rid of them no one would stick around and drink beer all afternoon. Those guys are only there drinking to watch the whacks - and drouge chutes don't do anything to prevent whacks.

dhmartens wrote:Hungry Joe’s flight school is also a great asset to this club. He offers hang 2 and 3 towing. Lets market that to be more comparable to Lookout Mountain.

Lookout mountain has a nice flight park. Trees, grass, condos, wirelss, and many more ammenities. Have you ever been to El Mirage dry lake? I would like to see that marketing plan.

Hungry has his clinic on the occassion that he can rally enough people to warrant having the class... usually once per year for the people who want the rating.


My $.02 USD,
Chris A.K.A Chickenbone, A.K.A Sweet Tea, A.K.A Chopper

dhmartens wrote:
For about $1,000 we could hire Paris Hilton and Borat impersonators and film them taking tandem rides. Release those onto the Internet and let it spread to every computer on the planet. “Paris Hilton mile high club tape�. What do you think?

sounds like law suit all over it.

I've avoided contributing to the "Presidency Debate" long enough !


Chip recommends concentrating on things that will benefit us directly such as "6. Official sponsorship from "Budweiser""

Why would Budweiser sponsor (free) us when they can SELL us the beer?

Mail the ballot. Ballets not received by Thursday don't count. You can also drop it in the post at the LZ as late as Thursday, but do it early enough that it gets collected.

I would really like to vote but I am sure my ballot was sent to my old address... can I have someone vote for me?

I am following this topic and appreciate the conversation very much. Several interesting points and suggestions have been made. The one I like best would support a top priority of site/sport preservation: Interclub membership discounts. Two of our So Cal sites that need our support come to mind -- Elsinore and Santa Barbara. From what I know, these two sites have many fewer members and face the most imminent site dangers. If we offer membership discounts and benefits between SHGA, Crestline, Santa Barbara and Elsinore, I see a stronger foundation for the future.

Lets place grass-roots marketing strategies and site preservation in mind for the moment. I think it would go a long way if we held Regional Comps along with Regional club membership discounts. As former Activities Director and long-time BOD member, a regional comp and interclub forum has been my biggest dream. I would personally dedicate a lot of energy and effort toward these goals. Our Fishbowl format over the past couple years laid the foundation for these longer range goals. If the Club made a regional comp (or 25th Anniversary event?) a priority then we could bring in the media (yes, KTLA would return) and Redbull and Flytec and local college students to do video and radio coverage. We did this to a smaller extent for our 20th Anniversary so I KNOW IT CAN BE DONE...

As I am living in the Bay area these days I am seeing how the sport protects and preserves sites by managing the region as a whole. Up here, each Club has it's members and site directors however, they come together as a group to rally and support the sport as a combined force. Example: Our SHGA Forest Committee has the benefit of Crestline's model and our SHGA site preservation has served as a model for Elsinore. Such good will awareness and cooperation is our marketing strategy at this point. Then comes along the power of good ambassadorship to visitors and mentors to new pilots.

Just my 2 cents for now...

Thank you all for running and good luckl. I think it would be ideal if each of you end up on the BOD in some capacity.

(BTW - I am running for Director at Large and hope you will vote for me)


Lynn

Vrezh: read the posts that follow mine and then tell me to calm down. Which won't do anyone any good 'cause I'm not excited about any of what Doug has to say; just amused.

Chip and Chris: thanks for chiming in!

Chris: I would suggest that in light of your situation, the BOD might accept a vote by e-mail in your case? Other than Pres and D@Large you don't have much choice anyway.

Don: you're probably right but for a different reason; liability issues, if I remember correctly. Check with BudRob, the tacit Anheuser sponsor.

Lynn: joint membership sounds nice but what does it get anyone without increased fees (which I don't altogether oppose)? It's the same amount of money with regional interests wanting to support their locals first. And from what I hear, members of the other clubs don't necessarily care to come to Sylmar, anyway. I think a first step is to scout the idea out with CSS and SHGA members and see how popular a fee increase might be. CSS is already $100, isn't it? If we increase to, say, $120-150 to have some real effect/benefit, I don't think the idea will get much support. We could drop the initiation $100 but how many pilots in either club are willing to support a site they seldomly fly?

Don't get me wrong: I think the idea has merit. There is power in numbers and many of our members may see beyond the local issue. Maybe we should start a new thread and continue the discussion outside of the race for pres. I defer to someone else to pick this up if there is real interest.

As to Bud sponsoring anything to do with hang gliding - FORGET IT. They are too conservative. We have a better chance with Miller. Which is to say, not much.

Not enough noise (loud engines) in this sport - not enough interest - not enough spectatorship. Oh yeah, lets not forget to mention that the small amount of press hang gliding gets is almost always negative.

In summary - Anheuser-Busch has less than no interest in anything to do with hang gliding. Be grateful for free beer when you can get it; and remember it is not Bud supplying it but just a guy that does't mind passing along a little good fortune from time to time.

PS - please drink responsibly. Also please clean up after yourselves as well!

Jim,

I was not responding to the idea of joint membership. Maybe I misunderstood the original suggestion and,as I did understand it, I was expanding on the idea of a discount incentive for us to be interclub members (in effect supporting the region and encouraging an expanded awareness of the needs of the sport among active pilots).

As you know, some SHGA members are also members with CSS. But, there are very few in that group. Perhaps we could increase our membership and strengthen our Club by offering a discounted membership to CSS/Elsinore/Santa Barbara pilots. Anyway, I agree the first place to explore this idea would be with CSS.

We can carry this to a different post if you like. However, I've expressed my responses and ideas and I appreciate your feedback.

Soon we fly...

I just noted that Chris started a separate discussion: Multi-site.

Thanks Chris -- see ya over there

©hris posted a detailed plan for multi-club flying rights, which I responded to. The link is here: http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=509

Trying to keep things organized.

Perhaps a question more appropriate for the presidency subject is how to communicate with the membership. I have seen a few pro and anti posts on expanding membership. I am not sure if these are representative of the membership as a whole because I don't know if there is balanced use of the forum by all members.

If I were president, I would like to know what the members thought was important for the club. If I wanted to find out what people were interested in seeing happen next year, does anyone have any ideas on how to get the best feedback from the membership. Clearly, forum posts would not reach everyone.

I was only joking about the Budweiser sponsorship. I know Rob has us covered

Joseph wrote: If I were president, I would like to know what the members thought was important for the club. If I wanted to find out what people were interested in seeing happen next year, does anyone have any ideas on how to get the best feedback from the membership. Clearly, forum posts would not reach everyone.

You are probably going to be President. Be careful what you wish for.

How about a poll here on the site? I am sure Chip could help with that. Lay it out, 4-5 goals for the year. The number of votes determines priority. When you are sworn in you can ask Chip yourself.

Joseph wrote: Perhaps a question more appropriate for the presidency subject is how to communicate with the membership. I have seen a few pro and anti posts on expanding membership. I am not sure if these are representative of the membership as a whole because I don't know if there is balanced use of the forum by all members.

For the record, I am not against expanding the membership. I am only against assuming that it is worthy of alot of time and effort, and that the results will be positive. I have already layed out what I think are worthy goals. But I am not President.

As far as reaching members; The only members that really matter are the ones that are engaged already. The rest can either get engaged (i.e. at least vote in an online poll) or cry into their (BYOB) beer...

Well today is the final day to get your ballot in, not Tuesday. What was I thinking; it must have been the 5 different types of chocolate I ate at the holiday desert table. I make a special thanks to Freddy Wagner for his organization of the Holiday Party. I flew with Freddy at Big Sur where he top landed the front ridge. I also got to watch him launch his mosquito harness at Avenue S as I was 600 AGL in the LZ - nice.

I hope I motivated voters to fill out their ballots. I offer strong leadership and specific goals. I think all pilots can relate to that, as they are usually leaders and not followers themselves. You took the initiative and had passion to get into the sport. Tonight the board meeting will address the initiation fee so we can already see the implementation of the new agenda.

I have been creating another plan for Memorial day weekend where 3 powered harness hang gliders follow a Cessna with a banner down the beach coast just out to sea. About a million people would see this. The banned could have a simple web address (maybe a turtle too). For safety the gliders could have some floatation device and keep a 45-degree glide angel from a rescue boat following with guys to assist incase of a water landing. Unknown are what LZ’s could be used.

Crestline has a more complex 2-tier membership system. If clubs could fly free at other clubs they would become only members at the cheapest club. Maybe we should offer 3 summer months of free flying here for those members and provide launch sanitation those 3 months for our female patrons as Crestline does year round. See if the other clubs react and will try to match or exceed that.

I have heard some discussion about regional competitions. Adding a few thousand dollars in cash prizes might sweeten the deal.

I called the USHPA a glorified insurance company. 10,000 members at $65 each is $650,000. If they had a billion dollars they could do more is all I meant. I love the magazine.

The Geico car insurance lizard has added 2 million policies since 2002. The lizard said, “People trust advertising icons�. He inspired the Gamera concept.

From an interview I saw, a legal issue with celebrity impersonators is they never say they are that person under any circumstance.

Giving us your ideas. Brainstorming is coming up with as many ideas as possible without negative feedback. When you tell someone it’s a bad idea they stop giving ideas. I appreciate the pros and cons feedback though as it helps to develop the idea.

I thought of showing a line of Hang gliders flying above the carpool lane with a caption “Zero emission vehicle�

Good luck to the candidates, see you with gloves on Saturday morning.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 9174672842
Here is a documentary for our webpage. Rogallo Dickenson & Moyes interview.
The 1968 early rogallo had a 30mph takeoff speed.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5606928568
here is Joe Greblo giving a lesson at Big Sur