Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject: Landing Out? Cops and concerned citizens.
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But this legal stuff is just for your information, and it may or may not be a correct statement of the law, depending on the place where you are. Remember that landowners are concerned that if someone crashes on their land, and is injured, they might somehow be found liable. That’s not really a valid concern, because the laws or California and some other states protect landowners from liability to people whom they permit to participate in recreational activities on their land. Don’t play lawyer with the landowner or the cops. That’s the surest way to piss them off. But if they complain about the possibility that you might sue them, you can say that you’ve got a pilot’s license from USHPA, and to get it you had to agree not to sue any landowner for any personal injury to you, or damage to your equipment in connection with flying. (But just so you know, you haven’t waived the right to sue him for “confiscating� anything, or threatening you with a gun.)
But don’t play lawyer. Everyone hates them. Be contrite for your trespasses. Be nice. Be cool.
LEGAL DISCLAIMER
(I have to do this to protect myself from being sued by anyone who reads this.)
You are not my client and I am not your lawyer. To get real legal advice, you need to hire your own lawyer. The information above might be wrong and you should not rely on it. Take it or leave it - - it’s free. If you had hired me as your lawyer and paid me, I would have researched all of this before I gave you any legal opinion. I haven’t done any research here. I don’t do that fo[r free, so I’m shooting from the hip . I’m writing this just so you’ll have a slightly more informed layman’s viewpoint on this. Larry
Landing out? Cops and concerned citizens
Moderator: Chip
Landing Out? Cops and concerned citizens.
Oops, did it again.
The first two times I submitted the third part of this post, I couldn't see it below the second part. So I submitted it again - twice. I didn't realize that it had wrapped over to another page, and I'd have to click the "Next" link.
The forum wouldn't let me delete these last two embarrassing posts: all I can do is edit them. So while you're here,
A duck walks into a drug store and says, "Gimme a chapstick, and put it on my bill.
Get it? Play on words? Never mind. Sorry to bother you.
(Posted by Chip ---- "I fixed some of the stuff)
The first two times I submitted the third part of this post, I couldn't see it below the second part. So I submitted it again - twice. I didn't realize that it had wrapped over to another page, and I'd have to click the "Next" link.
The forum wouldn't let me delete these last two embarrassing posts: all I can do is edit them. So while you're here,
A duck walks into a drug store and says, "Gimme a chapstick, and put it on my bill.
Get it? Play on words? Never mind. Sorry to bother you.
(Posted by Chip ---- "I fixed some of the stuff)
Soar With Prudent Passion
Larry Chamblee
Larry Chamblee
Larry,
The answer to the frustration may lie in the italics below:
How do I edit or delete a post?
Unless you are the board admin or forum moderator you can only edit or delete your own posts. You can edit a post (sometimes for only a limited time after it was made) by clicking the edit button for the relevant post. If someone has already replied to the post, you will find a small piece of text output below the post when you return to the topic that lists the number of times you edited it. This will only appear if no one has replied; it also will not appear if moderators or administrators edit the post (they should leave a message saying what they altered and why). Please note that normal users cannot delete a post once someone has replied.
Possibly if you work backwards from the last post you can pull it off. I have had the same problem several times.
The answer to the frustration may lie in the italics below:
How do I edit or delete a post?
Unless you are the board admin or forum moderator you can only edit or delete your own posts. You can edit a post (sometimes for only a limited time after it was made) by clicking the edit button for the relevant post. If someone has already replied to the post, you will find a small piece of text output below the post when you return to the topic that lists the number of times you edited it. This will only appear if no one has replied; it also will not appear if moderators or administrators edit the post (they should leave a message saying what they altered and why). Please note that normal users cannot delete a post once someone has replied.
Possibly if you work backwards from the last post you can pull it off. I have had the same problem several times.
Last edited by Christian on Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oh Jeez, wait a minute. I replied to Larry's last post, telling him he can delete it as long as nobody replies.
[As long as nobody replies, there's an "X" next to the "edit" button. As soon as somebody replies, the "X"--which deletes the post instantly-- disappears."
So my son comes in and says, "Hey, who wrote 'gullible' on the ceiling?"
And I look up, there's nothing there.
Chip can help when all else fails....
[As long as nobody replies, there's an "X" next to the "edit" button. As soon as somebody replies, the "X"--which deletes the post instantly-- disappears."
So my son comes in and says, "Hey, who wrote 'gullible' on the ceiling?"
And I look up, there's nothing there.
Chip can help when all else fails....
-
DigitalBishop
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:56 pm
- Location: Reseda, CA
Ok, I'm pretty sure everyone hates what-if's but I'm curious to know what I should do if a property owner sees it as their right to confiscate your equipment to force you to wait for the police. They don't allow you to break down the equipment and they physically get between your equipment and you.
Jamie Krasnoo
If the landowner physically interferes with your packing up your equipment, or physically prevents you from leaving, YOU call the police.
Detaining a person against his or her will is a civil wrong, a "tort," like battery (touching of another without permission or a privilege -like administering emergency medical assistance), or defamation (publishing false statements about a person that injure his reputation in a way that causes money damages). That means you could sue a person who does these things, and get money, if you could prove money damages (e.g.medical bills, loss of income) Detaining a person against their will can also be a crime, depending on the circumstances. It can be kidnapping, but generally only when the captor moves the captive somewhere against his will.
Unlawfully detaining a person's property is a tort and might be a crime. Is it "unlawful" if you have put your property on his property by landing there? Nice question. I'd research it if I were being paid. You might be able to sue for unlawful detention of personal property, too.
But 1)you don't want a lawsuit, and 2)you REALLY don't want to get in a physical dispute with a person claiming to be a landowner. Imagine how that will sound to his brother-in-law, Bubba the local constable.
CALL THE POLICE. But before you make the call, MAKE A RECORD OF WHAT'S GOING ON. Ask the person "What will you do if I try to pack up my equipment? Note the answer - a threat of physical violence would put you in the best position when you talk to the cops.
Ask him, "What will you do if I try to leave without my equipment?" Best response to put him in a bad position with the police, "I will tie you to that tree. (or some other act of unpermitted touching). Tell that person, "You are not permitted to touch me or my equipment. I'm calling the police."
After that, ask who owns this property. Then ask the person's for his name. Ask for ID. If he/she refuses, fine, you can tell that to the police too. If a person refuses to give ID, I would take his picture, but I'm 6"4" and 200 pounds. If he tries to take my camera, he's committed a battery.
NOW, call 911. Tell them your name. Tell them you are being detained against your will. Tell them that a person is holding $5,000 worth of your sports equipment and has threatened physical violence if you try to take it back. Tell them where you are. Tell them you need police assistance. Don't take no for an answer. Ask them how soon help will arrive.
NOW, radio or telephone your chase crew or other pilots. Tell them what's happening and ask them to come to help you right away.
Then, sit or stand between the person and your equipment. If he/she tries to go for your equipment, stand in the way, passive peace protester style. Say, "We're waiting for the police. Don't touch me. Don't make it worse."
To the extent you can, physically hold on to your equipment. Make him/her touch you first. You want to be able to tell the cops, "I never touched him. I just held on to my bag." If he/she is successful in getting to your equipment, yell at them, and resist if it is in your hands. You have the privilege of trying to hold on to your property.
At all times, remain willing to pack up and leave the property. The owner may get tired of this, or realize see that he's getting himself in trouble. In any case, it's using up his time.
WEASELY LAWYER'S LEGAL DISCLAIMER Okay, remember. I am not your lawyer and you are not my client. If you want real legal advice, you should hire your own lawyer. Free legal advice is worth what you pay for it. The information above might be wrong. You might get arrested and prosecuted anyway if you do these things. I hope you don't.
Detaining a person against his or her will is a civil wrong, a "tort," like battery (touching of another without permission or a privilege -like administering emergency medical assistance), or defamation (publishing false statements about a person that injure his reputation in a way that causes money damages). That means you could sue a person who does these things, and get money, if you could prove money damages (e.g.medical bills, loss of income) Detaining a person against their will can also be a crime, depending on the circumstances. It can be kidnapping, but generally only when the captor moves the captive somewhere against his will.
Unlawfully detaining a person's property is a tort and might be a crime. Is it "unlawful" if you have put your property on his property by landing there? Nice question. I'd research it if I were being paid. You might be able to sue for unlawful detention of personal property, too.
But 1)you don't want a lawsuit, and 2)you REALLY don't want to get in a physical dispute with a person claiming to be a landowner. Imagine how that will sound to his brother-in-law, Bubba the local constable.
CALL THE POLICE. But before you make the call, MAKE A RECORD OF WHAT'S GOING ON. Ask the person "What will you do if I try to pack up my equipment? Note the answer - a threat of physical violence would put you in the best position when you talk to the cops.
Ask him, "What will you do if I try to leave without my equipment?" Best response to put him in a bad position with the police, "I will tie you to that tree. (or some other act of unpermitted touching). Tell that person, "You are not permitted to touch me or my equipment. I'm calling the police."
After that, ask who owns this property. Then ask the person's for his name. Ask for ID. If he/she refuses, fine, you can tell that to the police too. If a person refuses to give ID, I would take his picture, but I'm 6"4" and 200 pounds. If he tries to take my camera, he's committed a battery.
NOW, call 911. Tell them your name. Tell them you are being detained against your will. Tell them that a person is holding $5,000 worth of your sports equipment and has threatened physical violence if you try to take it back. Tell them where you are. Tell them you need police assistance. Don't take no for an answer. Ask them how soon help will arrive.
NOW, radio or telephone your chase crew or other pilots. Tell them what's happening and ask them to come to help you right away.
Then, sit or stand between the person and your equipment. If he/she tries to go for your equipment, stand in the way, passive peace protester style. Say, "We're waiting for the police. Don't touch me. Don't make it worse."
To the extent you can, physically hold on to your equipment. Make him/her touch you first. You want to be able to tell the cops, "I never touched him. I just held on to my bag." If he/she is successful in getting to your equipment, yell at them, and resist if it is in your hands. You have the privilege of trying to hold on to your property.
At all times, remain willing to pack up and leave the property. The owner may get tired of this, or realize see that he's getting himself in trouble. In any case, it's using up his time.
WEASELY LAWYER'S LEGAL DISCLAIMER Okay, remember. I am not your lawyer and you are not my client. If you want real legal advice, you should hire your own lawyer. Free legal advice is worth what you pay for it. The information above might be wrong. You might get arrested and prosecuted anyway if you do these things. I hope you don't.
Soar With Prudent Passion
Larry Chamblee
Larry Chamblee
