Sylmar Hang Gliding Association

I want to publicly thank Chip, Katherine, Joe and whoever else helped put together and organize the LZ cleanup today. Truly a great event.

I also want to thank all who showed up and worked. Some a little (like me), some a lot (like Mike Hayden), but everyone did something, and it shows. Even the folks who flew worked first. Those who missed it have a big surprise coming when the arrive at the LZ next time. Be sure and thank your buddies that helped.

Good job all.

There's probably more to do, so if you want to help, feel free. There is a list. If it isn't in the LZ, ask Chip. I'm sure he can post it.

I'm sorry I was unable to chip in and do my fair share of clean-up today. I'll try and make up for it by having many enjoyable flights and safe landings. That's the ticket! I sure do appreciate everyone's time and effort. I can't wait to see it from the air.
Cheers, Jonathan

Much of the credit goes to all of you that came out and participated. You all made the event happen and created the success it was.

You should have seen Joe Greblos face, he was all giggly most of the day. He told me this is what makes him tick and he loves this sort of thing (seeing everyone involved and the great volunteer effort that was on display).

Lots of innovative ideas and inventions to get better results, like dragging the field with the chain-link fence to smooth the approach and the various "tools" used to scrape the picnic tables.

For those of you that may have spent money to get things done, I'm told you can submit those receipts to the treasurer and you'll be reimbursed. The best way to do that would be to submit your receipt, write down the reason for the expense, like fence parts for gate repair, and put it in an envelope and place it in the pipe next to the flag pole.

What I learned yesterday:

• Pilots will work for food, food is a good motivator
  Pilots like chili and potato salad
  There is a lot of talented people in the club
  Power tools can be fun
  Wearing white is ill advisable on cleanup days
  Sunscreen and dirt / dust doesn't feel all that great, but adds to the UV protection
  People like to help and have a big desire to take charge of something
  and most importantly ....... we have an awesome group of people.

I left the list of projects in the LZ last night when I left at 8pm, so I don't have the complete list of people that participated on each project, I'll get that today when I visit. However some of the notable projects that were completed include:

Gate Repair - nice job by several pilots that removed the gate, removed the old chain-link and replaced it with some spare we already had, replaced the wheels and components, and even put new cap ends on the poles (nice attention to detail guys). Thanks go out to Bill Brick, Dave Frauchauer, and another individual I'm missing the name on.

Waterproof Entrance sign and Bulletin Board - two different crews but the results look very nice. The signs soaked up the Thompson's Water seal like a sponge. All materials including the paint brushes were donated so a BIG THANK YOU to the pilots that read the forum or are really good at figuring out what might be needed. Julie Ann, Eric Brown, and Freddy, Richard Shaw brought the sealer, and Larry brought the paint brushes.

Picnic Table Repair - our talented wood workers really took this one to heart. I basically had written those things off. Not our wood working engineers, they made both of those tables nearly as good as new. In the end they had them repaired, prepped and painted. To preserve their hard work we should seal them with a good water sealer since they're in the elements all the time. But great work from Jim, Tom, and Todd.

Cleanup of Pilot Area - Should be called the pilot lounge , generally the area consisted of the space between the storage sheds, the phone booth and the area around the flag pole. The crew that at one time consisted of Julie Ann, Kathy Mocaanin, and Lisa Wendt, and possibly more, really gave that place a good "fall cleaning". In the end the lost and found box that was falling apart was removed, the phone booth now looks naked, the flower beds are nicely weeded and look great. Thanks to our great women members.

Tree Trimming - This is where the power tools were at their best and made for quick work on the job, although I saw some using manual tools for the lighter work. I think the part that was the most entertaining was seeing George jumping up and snipping the low hanging branches with the hand held hedge shears. But seriously you guys really took this task and made a big impact. The pepper tree that overhangs into our parking lot from SIBL was trimmed by Daryl, later George, Larry, Sebastian took to the shade trees and pruned the dead branches and gave the trees a nice trim before the winter. Mike Haybens trailer bed was completely packed with the trimmings.

Water Sprinkler Repair - This one we can easily attribute to Richard Shaw and the crew he assembled, even though a few others were involved by getting wet during testing. I believe all the sprinklers are currently working. There is some talk now of extending the coverage area to include the hillside and runway areas, but for now things are good.

Wood Pile - As soon as Greg Angsten showed up he knew what he wanted.... er wanted to do. He and a few others removed all of the wood and placed it in his truck giving the area between SIBL and SHGA a little bit of cleaning and removing all of the partially burned and unburned lumber. Glad it worked out Greg.

And then the there's the crew out in the wash helping smooth the area and removing the larger rocks and debris. A tireless and often thankless job until one day when your landing on your belly because you didn't set up your approach correctly and instead of bashing your leading edge into a rock , it's met with sand. Thanks to all of you out there.

LZ Streamers - Glenn seems to have this one down to a science. The streamers are nice, clearly visable from the air and work well.

And one last big THANKS to Mike Hayden, I'll bet the shower felt good after the day spent on the tractor. The trailer he brought also proved to be a great addition to the set of "tools". This is the second time he's brought the trailer out and its proved once again to be an indispensable item for these sort of events.

Thanks once again to all that came out

Just a short note (Really!):

Many folks did jobs and didn't write their names on the list for that specific job. So, whatever list that Chip comes up with (thanks Chip!) is going to be incomplete.

Thanks to everyone, even if your name doesn't end up on the list.

And yea, it probably was funny watching me trim the trees. That darned branch was "just" out of reach.

So many people went off in so many directions to tackle the multitude of l/z projects on the list. When you get a chance check out the following.....new, longer and wider Hang 2/3 runway, much longer and safer Hang 4 overshoot area, new driveway gate, fence repair at the end of Gridley, refurbished wood picnic tables, major tree pruning, wisteria trimmed, speed bump patched, wood piles and l/z junk cleared out, sprinklers replaced and adjusted, all new wind streamer poles, entry sign and bulletin stained and sealed, aluminum recycling center cleared and de-commissioned, flagpole area planters fixed up, outhouse graffiti removed, trash along Gridley St. removed. Thanks to all who pitched in.

Wow!! Just amazing. The LZ is huge now and I like it. All brush and obstacles cleared. Great work all. The fire has it's blessings. One has been the outpouring of energy and determination by this clubs members. Our employers would be impressed with what we can accomplish if you don't pay us. The difference between work and play. Let's keep it going. I feel we are on a roll. I'd like to see well defined landing zones with white lines. Is that possible? I'll do the work and buy the material if the board agrees with it. In other words, it's free if we want it. Do we? If so, I would do it according to guidance by Greblo the Great, defender of the relm.

Although the mountain is bare and burnt and not very attractive, it is currently at it's worse. Nature's field has been plowed and the new growth will make it better every day going forward. This spring should be an overdue and wonderful renewal of the mountain. Maybe all those poppies we sowed will cover the valley in orange this year.

Glen;
White lines would be fine, but they are only temporary and begin to look pretty shabby when they wear and become segmented. A white chalk centerline wouldn't be too hard to keep replacing and both helps with approaches, and makes it look a little more like a flight park. As for borders for the grass, would you consider something more permanent like stone or tile pavers to edge the grass? Or perhaps digging a 2 ft. wide border a couple inches deep and fill it with decomposed granite to give it a more "parklike" look.
Although I personally hate a landing targets (circles), I think most pilots like them, so a nice bordered grass circle would also be very good. Decomposed Granite (DG, if you're not familiar with it), is the heavy tan granuals (sand) that walking paths are made of. Lining the grass circle with DG would finish it off. It's heavy and doesn't blow away and it's not hard to keep the weeds out.
White rocks would look good but eventually the get too spread out and weeds grow right through it. They'd be a mess in a year. If it's white chalk line, go for it. If you wan't something nicer, let's listen to more ideas first. What do you think?
Joe

I'll explore materials and costs to evaluate some options and present them in this thread. If anyone else has any suggestions please add them here. The easiest would be white lines using a material that would kill and prevent plant growth where the line is. If we do this, I would build or buy a device to reline it easliy so it could be done regularly. I like the idea of a more permanant medium of recessed gravel, pavers or something, but that would multiply the work and expense by quite a bit. Maybe a combination of both things in different areas. I'll know better what's possible after a little research.

Is there a scaled diagram of the LZ somewhere?

Better than a scaled diagram is to copy a photo from Google Maps, Google Earth, or Zillow. You can scale them to any size and rotate them to fit the page.

JOe

Suggested Runway layout:

Medicated version has been deleted. Revised one below.

greblo wrote:White lines would be fine, but they are only temporary and begin to look pretty shabby when they wear and become segmented. A white chalk centerline wouldn't be too hard to keep replacing and both helps with approaches, and makes it look a little more like a flight park.

Instead of using chalk for a center line, how about the type of paint(?) that they use to mark the yard lines on a NFL field? The paint(?) should last longer than chalk.

Just a thought.

Glenn wrote:Suggested Runway layout:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bagoh20/2961063504/

Glen - Nice looking layout but I'm not so sure about those dimensions. Who's been flying that glider with the 75' span? Is that Joe's new Quad-Tandem for family value pack lessons?

Glen;
The idea looks good. The hang 4 runway can't be the way we'd all like, and as shown, because it violates the club's 200 ft. rule. It will require a small dogleg, or another approach that better protects the club's interests is to promote the single long runway, with the dogleg runway for simultaneous landings. I'll be happy to help you with this. Also, the hold short area is currently different for a reason.

joe

Since I was too sick to make the LZ clean-up I make this modest contribution of a composite map of the LZ with accurate 50' grid squares. If anyone needs a different scale for the grid, or any angles changed just let me know. Click the image for the full scale version.

Sorry for the scale error, I should have been sleeping. But it sure made the LZ bigger. I have repaired it and here is the revised one with lines moved.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bagoh20/2961579073/

It turns out that the north streamer location is on the 200 ft line. It works out well as an anchor for the layout. I'm measuring 200 ft from the property line, not the actual houses which are maybe 10 -15 feet more

I hate to say it, but the 200 ft line makes a straight approach on final to the H4 LZ virtually imposable. Am I missing something? Is that rule renegotiable to say 100 ft?

A think the two separate runways is better since it allows two simultaneous landing approaches with different altitude and pattern geometries, reducing conflict. One runway would only allow the two pilots to use different altitudes on the same track. Also a single one is not possible unless we fill that carve-out on the east side.

What is the problem with the "Hold Short" line? Don't we need that to avoid runway incursion.

BTW, How do you get the image to show here? I tried the html tags and have html turned on, but no image posts??

Glenn wrote:...........BTW, How do you get the image to show here? I tried the html tags and have html turned on, but no image posts??

Get to the correct image url from the All Sizes button over the Flickr image. Right click on the size you want and copy the shortcut. Paste and block the image url then hit the Img button.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3062/296 ... f6a247.jpg becomes......

Here's a revision using the houses themselves to measure the 200 ft line. This gives a little more and allows a runway extension line out to the north streamer for pilots to line up with the runway and stay east of the 200 ft. line. Thanks for the help, NMERider.

Joe, any imput?

We are expected to remain 200 ft. from the fence line. The powerlines run parallel to the fence and just above it about 50 ft. Our streamer is located about 175-180 ft. from the fence line and this is what we have always considered as 200 ft. (even though it's a tad short).

Our commitment to stay out of this area during approaches is based upon an agreement between the club, the homeowners, the city councilman in our district, the city administrative officer, Southern California Edison, and the FAA; all whom attended the city imposed committee meetings that were formed to decide if the city were to draft an ordinance banning hang gliding. The FAA offered to enforce their 500 ft. rule if the city wanted them to. We (our club) successfully prevented these actions by creating a 200 ft. buffer zone as well as other community safeguards.

If your drawing could depict a 175' buffer zone from the property line (fence), I think it would be perfect. I still have trouble understanding how we would maintain the white runway borders on both sides. That's a pretty big job to throw on the board of directors and future volunteers.

Joe

The revised image should meet requirements, as Joe stated them.

Line Marking: The lines as laid out so far comprise over 3000 ft. That makes most permanent options very expensive. Embedded bricks, tiles or gravel would all involve a level of work and money that is more than I want to expend personally. I could do either painted lines (I can buy the paint and I can borrow the painting device from work or buy one if it's not available). Chalk or lime are also doable as in I would get the device and material. Here's the hard part: The substrate area needs to be clean and relatively smooth before the lines are applied. The grass will need mowed closely, the dirt areas cleared and swept. That will be a lot of work. Any volunteers?

Although I think this would be really cool. It is a lot of work. Alternatively, we could limit the lines to: A 200 ft line, A hold short line, and two runway centerlines (one for each runway).

After review, the last revision centerline is where our 200 ft line needs to be at the north end, so we could simply have only the centerline. Plilots would follow it but not cross it, and end up centered on the runway at touchdown.