I have noticed homeless people hanging out here on the weekends.
I have asked many club members about this and all I spoke with agree that this has to be stopped. Club members encouraging them by giving them money etc. needs to be stopped. Now we have stuff missing, that needs to be stopped.
I WILL BE THE ASSHOLE IF I HAVE TO!
I am very much aware of the club's issues with the neighbors, I don't think the neighbors would be happy to hear that we are encouraging this and getting rid of the riff raff is in everyone's favor.
This weekend's event will attract them, am I going to be the only one with enough balls to make them, leave? We'll find out.
This weekend is designed to be an event where friends, family and neighbors are encouraged to attend. While I totally agree that theft and squatters are unacceptable, I caution all of us to not jump to conclusions about individuals. My suggestion is to take is case-by-case. If any individual displays rude behavior or appears to be pan-handling, then they will be asked to leave. The status of homelessness is not enough of a reason to kick someone out.
The worst thing the club could do would be to allow several crimes to take place and be reported to the police who maintain a database that Realtors and Appraisers have access to when determining the value of our neighbors houses which, in turn would be lower.
Lynn McLaughlin wrote:This weekend is designed to be an event where friends, family and neighbors are encouraged to attend. While I totally agree that theft and squatters are unacceptable, I caution all of us to not jump to conclusions about individuals. My suggestion is to take is case-by-case. If any individual displays rude behavior or appears to be pan-handling, then they will be asked to leave. The status of homelessness is not enough of a reason to kick someone out.
It is actually more than enough reason as one becomes two, etc. word gets around quick and that's reality. If anyone can come up with a reasonable logical argument as to why we should allow even 1 homeless person to hang out I would like to hear it. Sorry Lynn, loitering on our property may not be enough reason for some but we need to put our feelings aside here.
This link points out: http://mendpoverty.org/get-involved/major-donors/
The Honorable Richard Alarcon who granted our club $50,000 and also is listed as a "Major Donor over $100,000 2011-2012" at MEND Poverty.
The Board of Directors position on this topic is very much in alignment with Lynn's response. Visitors are welcome if they behave themselves, regardless of where they live.
If a member has an issue with any visitor I would prefer that this be reported to me directly, rather than taking any action themselves, unless that behavior absolutely warrents immediate action.
Please remember that we WANT our neighbors to feel comfortable visiting our site, and that we have always promoted our pavilion as something that the neighbors could enjoy along with our members.
I agree with the Board's position, and we may not actually have a problem with this - I don't know. If we do, now or later, it's important to remember that every time a community does have this problem it ends the same way - crackdown. They take different paths to get there, but it's an old and common problem with lots of examples to learn from. There are also communities that never let the problem happen. Having been dirt poor and homeless myself in the past, I'm not without compassion, and no cruelty is required. This is really just about having limits and enforcing them.
~~~~~
This brings to mind a problem I have considered, and I wonder if there is a commonly used practice:
When you go flying, what do you do with your car keys? If something happens that prevents you from getting back, you might need someone to use your car to come get you, or need them to get access for something. If you have the keys on you, that's a problem. Leaving them in the car is obviously unsafe. We could have a common practice which helps us all. I would prefer that someone can get into my truck to come get me or take my truck home if needed, if I can't get back. Depending on the answer, It may not be smart to answer this question on this public forum.
Glenn,
Your YouTube contribution is hilarious and your comments make good sense.
Also, for the record, the family that frequently visits our l/z have all been polite, and respectful to me whenever I've made any requests of them.
I hope all will treat them with the same respect. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep an eye on them as we should for all visitors that don't have a stake in our club.
With respect to strangers that wander through the lz, my suggestion is for club members to be vigilant and perhaps snap a discreet cell phone photo and report it to Rob or one of the club directors for future reference.
Thanks to everyone for discussing an important subject.
OK, yes I was being overly dramatic to rattle the cage and see what the responses would be. The 10 or so random pilots I spoke with about this pretty much felt the way I do, that we need to nip this in the butt now. I have nothing against homeless people. They have my empathy and I occasionally buy someone a burger who looks like he needs it. I have been dirt poor myself for the last couple of years which is why you have not seen me around. I could not even afford the gas to get to Sylmar.
I am just trying to make a point that we really need to address this. The impression I got from speaking to some was that everyone knows about the problem but no one is doing anything and some are encouraging it. I am not on a "mission" here and would not treat another human being with disrespect regardless of circumstances. I much prefer diplomacy actually, even though it may not be on Geblo's level.
When some (not all) people are indigent they will do whatever it takes to get what they need/want, that's all.
I may be an atheist with nihilistic tendencies, but Buddha keeps me balanced, more or less.
I'm not critiquing anyone's comments here, I'm just having fun. My only real concern is the crime. We leave a lot of stuff laying around worth stealing, and when you think about it, few things interfere with life as much as not being able to trust people. You have to deal with it numerous times every day. Locking your house, locking your car, watching your back, checking your bank account, hiding your stuff, feeding your pit bulls, shooting suspicious people who walk by your house. It's exhausting!
how about a sign in sheet to present to visitors? then snap photos. sun i was the only one in l.z. with 3 strangers, i stayed as long as i could then dave showed up & i left. last week 2 guys visited, one really syudied the steel hang glider on the n.w. corner.if they don't sign in LOOK OUT111 rome
dhmartens wrote:
The worst thing the club could do would be to allow several crimes to take place and be reported to the police who maintain a database that Realtors and Appraisers have access to when determining the value of our neighbors houses which, in turn would be lower.
Glenn wrote:....My only real concern is the crime....
I have another concern and that is unopened containers of beer being left out or in unlocked ice chests where it can readily be opened and drunk by the neighbors' children or by transients.
Didn't GW have a policy about 'No beer left behind'?
Whoever leaves last--please make sure the opened cans and bottles are empty and unopened cans and bottles are secure.
After building such a fine flight park, there is no doubt that we can expect to see more visitors. I like the idea of video surveillance. We can at least start out with the sign as a deterent, and then add the surveillance system when the master electrical plan is made.
BudRob wrote:After building such a fine flight park, there is no doubt that we can expect to see more visitors. I like the idea of video surveillance. We can at least start out with the sign as a deterent, and then add the surveillance system when the master electrical plan is made.
Meanwhile, who do we call if we show up and there's trouble? 911? Somebody else?
In the event that a video camera is installed, perhaps it could be set up to stream over the club's web page so members could monitor in case we're looking at the page.
