Another $25,000?

BudRob · Post by **BudRob** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:37 pm

After Councilman Alarcon stated that the city would be giving us $25,000 with no strings attached, he mentioned to Joe Greblo that he MIGHT be able to get us another $25,000 if we could tell him how it would be spent such that it added value to the public. I believe that most value for that money would be to add real bathrooms (both men's and women's) to our LZ. It is now a very nice place to be but the outhouse(s) put some people off.

It is not for me to decide what would be best for others. So this post is intended to bring out other ideas, or to get confirmation that we should pursue a design and cost estimate for permanent bathrooms that we can submit to the city. The councilman's offer may not last so we want to move on this as soon as we can.

Busto · Post by **Busto** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:20 pm

Bathrooms would be great!

phkao · Post by **phkao** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:41 pm

There will be permit issues, code issues, and design issues, etc. I will be happy to help in doing some initial assessments if this is the consensus from the members.

skygeek AKA Seabass · Post by **skygeek AKA Seabass** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:44 pm

You sound like the perfect candidate we would really benefit from your experience thank you for the offer. I was thinking cinder block walls, stucco the block outside walls to match the pavilion with the same kind of roof. (stainless toilet, sink, handicap rails, mirror), floor drains, electric hand dryers. mechanical coded push button door locks.

Busto · Post by **Busto** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:36 pm

Floor drains would make cleaning fast and easy.

Don · Post by **Don** » Sat May 26, 2012 8:09 am

Busto wrote:Floor drains would make cleaning fast and easy.

I'm all for floor drains but wouldn't that require a connect to the main sewer line? No impossible but I've heard it is expensive.

skygeek AKA Seabass · Post by **skygeek AKA Seabass** » Sat May 26, 2012 8:31 am

We would be connecting to the city sewer line for the toilets, sinks and floor drains if were going to do bathrooms lets do it right. The toilets would be tank less.

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Sat May 26, 2012 10:21 pm

I agree that proper restrooms would be the next logical improvement. If so, I think we should not be too skimpy about them. We should size them with events in mind, not just the normal usage. Not only for our own events, but to accommodate groups that we could rent the facility out to. This could be a nice income stream in the future. Having restrooms would make that a much more feasible possibility. This could be an easy, manageable way of generating income with little effort, investment or disruption, that would strengthen ties with the community. Pilots could even provide unique additions to weddings and other ceremonies, like we do with the SIBL ball drop. Perhaps something like rose petals, confetti or rice dropped over a wedding ceremony.

Maybe lighted aerobatic formation flying over the final Rolling Stones concert with Mick Jagger singing from a tandem that lands on the stage. I'd be willing to throw in a few of my groupies for such an event.

Steve90266 · Post by **Steve90266** » Thu May 31, 2012 5:21 am

Many folks, my wife in particular, are put off by the out houses. I believe that well thought out public restrooms would be a HUGE PLUS to our LZ. Provided that the honorable Mr. Alarcon can come through with the additional $25K, I'm all for it!

Joe Faust · Post by **Joe Faust** » Thu May 31, 2012 5:42 pm

Compare the scenarios:

One unisex family restroom with wheelchair access.
Consider high-level of ambient ventilation using stainless-steel small-mesh screen (keep large insects out).

Versus

Two separate rooms of wheelchair access.

But, now I see Glenn's idea and favor the larger vision that he described above.

Busto · Post by **Busto** » Thu May 31, 2012 8:47 pm

According to "California plumbing code", we are required to have separate bathrooms for men and women.

Obviously, both must also meet ADA requirements.

Spitfire · Post by **Spitfire** » Thu May 31, 2012 10:16 pm

Busto wrote:According to "California plumbing code", we are required to have separate bathrooms for men and women.

Obviously, both must also meet ADA requirements.

How do some public places get away with one restroom...are they grandfathered in?

Busto · Post by **Busto** » Thu May 31, 2012 10:26 pm

Point out a location, then we can look at their circumstances. Is it public, private? One idea is maybe they didn't follow codes or even get permits, this is one scenario that seems to be used, when deemed possible. Grandfathered is a thought, but concerning the public, California has an equality issue that points out that both genders will have separate bathrooms.

Since this second $25,000.00 will be donated for the purpose of improvements for the public; the donation comes with obligations. Our club has been asked to show details of what we are planning on doing.

Spitfire · Post by **Spitfire** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:16 am

Busto wrote:Point out a location, then we can look at their circumstances. One idea is maybe they didn't follow codes or even get permits, this is one scenario that seems to be used, when deemed possible. Grandfather is a possibility, but concerning the public, California has an equality issue that points out that both genders will have separate bathrooms.

Since this second $25,000.00 will be donated for the purpose of improvements for the public; the donation comes with obligations. Our club has been asked to show details of what we are planning on doing.

Restaurants. For example, I used to be a part owner in a restaurant in DTLA that was built around 2008/2009 and only had one bathroom.

I have another idea: give me the $25,000 and I'll work my high level contacts to arrange access to the facilities at the windsports house. Plus you can get to shower. (Joe I'll mail you a check for your cut of the $25k

)

phkao · Post by **phkao** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:17 am

Restaurants. For example, I used to be a part owner in a restaurant in DTLA that was built around 2008/2009 and only had one bathroom.

What restaurant was it? What type of restaurant was it? How big was the restaurant (how many employees and how many seats were in this restaurant)? Was it established in an existing building or was it in a brand new building built in 2008/2009? If it was in an existing building, was there a change of use when the restaurant was built in that space? Was this unisex restroom for employee use or for customer use, or both? There are a lot of factors that an owner and/or the architect could try to justify to claim hardships for meeting the code. Without knowing anything about your restaurant, it is hard to comment.

Nevertheless, claiming a hardship when building a brand new facility (in our case) will be extremely difficult. I donâ€™t think that insufficient fund qualifies it.

I have another idea: give me the $25,000 and I'll work my high level contacts to arrange access to the facilities at the windsports house. Plus you can get to shower. (Joe I'll mail you a check for your cut of the $25k )

Be prepared to upgrade the accessible path of travel from the flight park all the way to the Windsports house so that a disabled person can access a bathroom there. Be prepared to persuade Joe to also do an ADA upgrade to his entire property inside and out.

Spitfire · Post by **Spitfire** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:30 am

I'm familiar with code enforcement and ADA enough to know that it's so complicated and convoluted in CA that you need a Phd at the least just to understand it. My father built a condo building once and we got screwed by code officers continually forcing us to make changes after the design was approved and signed off on. The office building I'm in right now is being screwed by the Fire Department forcing them to make changes which seem to be never ending (and this is a decent quality mid rise building). Sadly IMO, it seems to be more about who you know and from what I can gather, who you can pay off, to get things done.

So...the question is, is $25,000 enough to build a couple of bathrooms?

Spitfire · Post by **Spitfire** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:54 am

One more thing. Whereas it's great to upgrade our facilities at the LZ, wouldn't it be better to take steps to secure launch? I don't know if the extremely generous donation can help towards this, but I would think the priority should be on ensuring an easement from the gate to launch, otherwise we might end up with a fancy and expensive LZ that is pretty worthless.

Since I'm a relative newcomer to SHGA this may have been discussed previously. If so apologies for rehashing an old topic, perhaps someone can bring me up to speed or point to an old thread that discussed this topic.

OP · Post by OP » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:03 pm

I say we donate the money to research advanced humerus repair techniques.

Busto · Post by **Busto** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:08 pm

Not a bad idea.

skygeek AKA Seabass · Post by **skygeek AKA Seabass** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:05 pm

OP $25k to make you funny, I would rather have bathrooms.

Sylmar Hang Gliding Association

Another $25,000?

Another $25,000?

Floor Drain

New Bathrooms