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  • #616

    What happened to all of the existing (“old”) forum posts?

    The old forum posts held a wealth of information and club history. What happened to all of those posts? Some of those posts were from our friends who are no longer with us. Are those posts available anywhere on line? And if not on line, can they be made available for rehosting elsewhere?

    As an observation: We seem to be losing more information in the supposed “information era” than at any other point in human history. And it’s so needless since the availability of storage is growing exponentially. It only takes a few minutes to download and upload an entire forum history (database) to preserve it. Has that been done with the old forum posts?

     

     

    #620

    The old forum posts held a wealth of information and club history. What happened to all of those posts?

    Agreed. I understand the new website forum may be technically incompatible with the old database.
    But, the old forum should remain available as a “read only” archive. There is a wealth of historical information there. It would be a shame to lose it forever.

    #625

    I did a little poking around viewing the page sources for the new forum, and I am suspecting that this forum is now a WordPress “bbPress” site. If that’s true, then there are a number of converters from phpBB (old format) to bbPress. Here are some links:

    But I tend to agree with Eric that it might be easier just to let the previous forum live on in a “read only” state to preserve the history. Is there any reason that couldn’t be done?

    If it’s a matter of workload, I am sure you will find some volunteers. I’ve been managing the US Hawks site (phpBB) for nearly 14 years now, and I could lend a hand. If nothing else, you could reactivate the old site just long enough to run a site-scraper to capture it all as static HTML pages. You could host those static pages anywhere in your current site. It would be better than nothing.

    Most importantly, please don’t lose the history that has been built here for well over a decade.

    Thanks.

    #628

    Likely serial format change to motion picture format (youtube) to improve profits.

    ushawks now control all California hanggliding sites, ACA, Shga, Santa Barbara, Funston, San Berandito.

    2028 Olympics in Los Angeles is our top priority. Palos Verdes flying site added if Newsome installs pegs to stablize land shift. ACA could employee site.

    ushawks backs Murillo changes because of future benefit to California olympic revenue.

     

    #629

    Eric wrote:

    But, the old forum should remain available as a “read only” archive.

    That should be especially easy since the old forum’s URLs used the singular “forum”:

    http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5196

    While the new forum uses the plural form:

    https://shga.com/forums/

    So the old forum could continue to exist without conflicting with the new one. That would also preserve all of the external links into the Sylmar forum (which are now broken). Is there any reason that approach hasn’t been taken?

    #635

    Bob, The forum used before this last forum was restored at some point. I am looking for the link.

    This forum for the last 20 years can be accessed somewhat to wayback machine.

    example”

    Post by Frederick » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:36 pm

    The club is registered with Smile.Amazon.com!!

    We’ve gotten $444 from Amazon so far! The checks come quarterly.

    Did you know that Amazon will give 0.5% of your purchases to the non-profit of your choice? We’ve gotten $444.60 from the 22 people choosing us as their non-profit charity, to date.

    Here’s how it works:
    * You make your purchases via Smile.Amazon.com (exactly the same as Amazon.com)
    * The first time you go to Smile.Amazon.com, you specify Sylmar Hang Gliding Association as your charity

    Please support the club this way! If you’re buying from Amazon, you may as well buy via Smile.Amazon.com to get this Amazon Smile Foundation money directed to us.” end example.

    link:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20210515132705/https://shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6037&sid=5afa0c9086c8452e05a667151ef62fe6

    What happened is the story line became dated, ufos are real, BobK will never rejoin USHPA because it would damage his brand. The new shga web page moves us into the future with the Olympics and the harsh reality that an AI tandem instructor will take over. The webpage looks and performs well and we look into the future. Right now we are looking at the mining industry to provide ushawks with a Sylmar flying site from the Volcano to Dino’s triangle that does not require ushpa “natural” monopoly insurance. (looking to buy the land). And a Rancho Palos Verdes hang/paragliding site to augment California Olympic revenue via tourism.

    #645

    Hello Doug,

    Thanks for the link to archive.org (the “Wayback Machine”). That’s a great site and I’ve used it many times in the past. But they do not do a “deep dive” into most web sites that they archive. For example, if you follow your link, you will end up here:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20210515132705/https://shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6037&sid=5afa0c9086c8452e05a667151ef62fe6

    That’s a snapshot of that page on May 15, 2021. Now if you click on the “Board index“, it will take you to the top of the forum (on May 15, 2021). So far, so good. Now if you scroll down and click on the “Politics of flying” subforum, it will take you to that subforum. That page is also there. But then, if you click on “Appeal to USHPA Region 3 Director Ken Andrews“, you will get an error page even though the topic title states that there should be 7 replies and 3102 views. The site is full of holes like that where a few top level pages may be stored, but most of it is simply not there. The same is true with almost all other topics. These are just a few example topics from the “General Discussion” forum that are not there:

    “Yosemite this summer. Save the date, as they say.”
    “Christa Percival’s Going Away gathering”
    “Bates Beach”
    “Launch Weather Station”

    The list of missing topics goes on and on. I haven’t done a thorough study, but I suspect that the vast majority of the content is simply not there.

    So while I very much like archive.org, and I applaud their mission, they simply can’t keep up with all of the pages being produced on the modern Internet.

    So once again, I ask that the previous web site be restored at its previous location:

    https://shga.com/forum/ . . .

    This does not conflict with the current location:

    https://shga.com/forums/ . . .

    I hope you (and everyone else) will support a restoration of the original forum (even temporarily) so it can be properly archived.

    Thank you.

     

    #646

    I guess I should also address Doug’s comment (even though it is off topic for restoring the SHGA forum posts).
     
    Doug wrote:

    BobK will never rejoin USHPA because it would damage his brand

    That’s not true. I am often accused of being anti-USHPA. I am not. I just want USHPA to be what it should be – an organization representing pilots. I never resigned from USHPA because I was working to change USHPA. That’s why I became a Director and that’s why I continued to run to be a Director.
     
    Furthermore, not being a member of USHPA has the side effect of essentially isolating me from the pilot community – many of whom were my friends and who believed in what I have been trying to do. USHPA knows that isolating me is of far more value to their monopoly than collecting my annual membership fees. That’s why they’ve refused to retract their unjust expulsion.
     
    But if you need any more proof than that, I have sent a number of email messages to all members of the USHPA Board over the years requesting a retraction of their unjust expulsion. Here’s one that was sent to the USHPA Board – coincidentally – a year ago today (May 21, 2023):

    Bob’s Letter to the entire USHPA Board and a few observers:
     
    Members of the USHPA Board (cc/bcc others),
     
    I am writing to request a reversal of USHPA’s unjust 2015 Expulsion action against me (see attached) or to confirm that it is an ongoing action of USHPA under your Directorship.
     
    I am also writing to request a reversal of USHPA’s unjust 2016 refusal to renew the Torrey Hawks Chapter status or again to confirm that the refusal is an ongoing action of USHPA under your own Directorship.
     
    As I look at the list of current Directors (Nellie Milfield, Steven Pearson, Julia Knowles, Pamela Kinnaird, Nicholas Greece, Charles W. Allen, Stephan Mentler, Tiki Mashy, Bill Hughes, Jon Faiz Kayyem), I see very few names who were a party to these unjust actions taken in 2015 and 2016. I do not blame any of you for what your predecessors might have done. But every day is a new day, and today you begin to write your own legacy in the matter. I hope you will see this message as an opportunity to right some of the wrongs done by those who came before you. If you choose not to investigate and correct the matter, then you will no longer be blameless. I sincerely hope that you will make the effort to investigate this matter and reverse this long-standing injustice for the betterment of the entire hang gliding and paragliding community.
     
    With regard to the facts, I will try to be brief, but there is a lot to cover. If you have any inclination toward correcting this injustice, I can provide many more details at your request. Please don’t hesitate to ask. Please call or write any time. Don’t believe what you might have heard. Contact me yourself.
     
    The four core issues in my expulsion involved USHPA’s retaliation for my actions in:
     
    A. Creating the U.S. Hawks Hang Gliding Association
    B. “Disrupting”/”Endangering” operations at Torrey Pines
    C. Testifying to the City Council about Torrey Pines
    D. Testifying in court regarding a paragliding injury
     
    Those four summarize the roughly two dozen individually numbered and lettered “charges” in my 2015 USHPA expulsion notice (see attached termination letter as well as my written response to each charge and each charge category).
     
    I stand behind my actions listed above as A, C, and D. I did create the U.S. Hawks Hang Gliding Association to be an association representing hang gliding pilots. I have testified honestly to both the San Diego City Council and in a Court of Law about the ongoing problems and abuses at the Torrey Pines Gliderport. I have continued to do so since my expulsion, and I will continue to do so whether my expulsion is reversed or not. But none of those should have ever been grounds for expulsion. I do, however, deny all of the accusations summarized as “Disrupting”/”Endangering” operations at Torrey Pines Gliderport. Those are false claims and there was no evidence ever provided that I had done any of those things. I believe they were added to give at least some appearance of something related to flight for which I was being expelled, and they are simply not true. Please review the attached documents for more details.
     
    There is no historical doubt that many of the charges were “window dressing” to cover USHPA’s retaliation against me for my testimony in the Shannon Hamby lawsuit which was settled in her favor for an undisclosed amount of money. It is likely that the Hamby settlement along with other potential litigation at that time (Jean Lake, for example) was behind USHPA’s loss of insurance. There is little doubt that this was the primary motivation behind my expulsion. After all, I started the U.S. Hawks in 2010, and USHPA knew about it from the very beginning. Yet USHPA never said a word or issued a warning that starting a national hang gliding association was grounds for expulsion. I had similarly been speaking to the San Diego City Council since at least 2008 about the problems at Torrey Pines. Again, USHPA never said a word or issued any warnings. It wasn’t until I testified in the Hamby case in the fall of 2014 (and the subsequent settlement), that USHPA suddenly decided to expel me including those “reasons” in early 2015. The attached expulsion letter is dripping with USHPA’s resentment in settling the Hamby case at a loss.
     
    So the decision for you today is whether **YOUR** USHPA should continue to act out of retaliation or not. Do you want to inherit the sins of your predecessors or not? Please think for yourself. That’s why you were elected.
     
    I will say that my expulsion has had a number of important benefits in freeing both pilots and sites from USHPA’s grip.
     
    The clearest example has been Dockweiler Beach. For many years the County of Los Angeles required USHPA membership as a condition to fly at that site. In the spring of 2017 we brought the injustice of USHPA’s expulsion to the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors. They looked into the matter and decided very quickly that there was a clear need to provide some mechanism for non-USHPA members to fly at the site based on USHPA’s own expulsion documents. By July of 2017 (just a few months later), the Los Angeles County legal department had drafted and approved a simple one sheet waiver that we have been able to use to fly at Dockweiler WITHOUT USHPA membership ever since (see the attached Dockweiler waiver).
     
    Similarly, several other sites have since withdrawn their requirement for USHPA membership. It’s my understanding that the entire state of Utah has removed their USHPA requirement from all of their sites. In fact I flew at Point of the Mountain shortly after that change. I believe that many more sites could be opened up to non-USHPA flying by exposing this injustice to the appropriate land owners. It’s just a matter of finding the appropriate land owner and making the case. USHPA’s own expulsion letter reads like USHPA’s confession that they will retaliate for even simple things like creating an alternative hang gliding association. Go ahead and read it again. Such retaliation is seen by any good governments and any good land owners as entirely inappropriate and even repugnant.
     
    In addition to loss of USHPA monopolized sites, the unjust expulsion has also cost USHPA both members and money. I personally know a number of pilots who explicitly terminated their membership because of USHPA’s unjust retaliation in my case. I know of others who explicitly withheld donations that they intended to make based on USHPA’s unjust retaliation in my case. I know of many many others who remain USHPA members so they can fly, but are otherwise disgusted with USHPA’s actions in this matter and would happily go elsewhere.
     
    In closing, I’d like to paraphrase what I recall from Director Tiki Mashy when she spoke at my expulsion hearing. She pointed out that I was not being expelled for any flight violations at all. In fact, there has been no claim that my flying has been unsafe in any way (see Joe Greblo’s attached 2017 endorsement as an example of my flying history). Tiki pointed out that the things that USHPA didn’t like (testifying in court, speaking to the San Diego City Council, and operating the U.S. Hawks) were all things that I would keep doing whether expelled or not. She was similarly pointing out that the ONLY thing USHPA’s expulsion was doing was keeping me from flying … and I had never even been accused of any flight violations in the first place. Unfortunately, Mark Forbes stepped in and quickly shut down Tiki’s line of reasoning. Sadly, she gave in to the lynch mob mentality (“The sky is falling because we lost our insurance”), and she voted to expel me along with the rest. That is a stain on Tiki’s otherwise sterling record that I hope she will consider reversing while she is still in office and able to do so.
     
    As I said, the sins of the past are only on your shoulders as long as you continue to allow them. I am sure that you will be pressured to ignore this request, but your decision is your own. Please be advised that I will be using your response – or lack of response – to establish USHPA’s ongoing retaliation against both individuals and clubs at flying sites throughout the United States. It is my first desire that USHPA reverse both of these actions, and I request that the matters be brought before the entire USHPA Board for reversal at the next available meeting. I will be happy to attend as needed.
     
    Sincerely,
    Bob Kuczewski
    Club Secretary – Torrey Hawks Hang Gliding Club
    Board Member – US Hawks Hang Gliding Association
    Former USHPA Member ######
     
    cc/bcc: Observers

    So please don’t say that I would never rejoin USHPA. I have made the effort again and again, and USHPA has refused it each time.

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